CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help

Cycling with a confident child

(52 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from paddyirish
  • This topic is resolved

  1. crowriver
    Member

    a Weberian status phenomenon about the individual over the community

    This was already happening before Thatcher, otherwise Weber couldn't have pbserved it all those years ago. You can trace the influence of a number of post-war Tory (and Labour) governments who helped the rise of what Thatcher dubbed "the great car economy". Like it or not, the Tories were part of a movement in society as a whole towards these ends, they just accelerated existing trends in a particular direction for their own benefit. Gradually, the alternatives were enfeebled. In the case of transport, the bicycle was the first to suffer in the 1950s as roads became busier with motor vehicles and motorway building began: over time reduced to a rumpo of sport, leisure, and children's plaything, pretty much where it is to this day. Next were the railways, savagely cut from the 1960s onwards as a result of the Beeching report. There was a brief hiatus during the oil crisis of the mid-1970s, but then the North Sea fields came on stream. Thatcher delivered the coup de grace with bus deregulation, and Major privatised the railways.

    So over 40 years transport policies stifled competition to the private motor vehicle. I daresay it will take another 40 years to change the situation.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    See specifically Ernest Marples who was transport minister in conservative govt when M1 was built and beeching cuts came in. Now the company building the M1 was Marples Ridgway. But that was OK as he gave up being managing director due to conflict of interest and his wife ran the company. Shocking but true.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. crowriver
    Member

    I believe we covered Marples in threads passim.

    Anyway, back to SRF's video. The sequence at George IV bridge with the HGVs was the worst. If I had beem 'ride leader' I would not have gone up the inside like that, I would have stayed behind the flat bed lorry. Though SRD was right to insist on going forward of the ASL given that otherwise you were all in blind spots: lots of gesticulating! Unfortunately this had the unforseeen consequence of the same flatbed lorry overtaking on the mound, which would not have occurred if everyone had hung back. Easy to say with hindsight of course.

    What this video also shows is that you really have to be very familiar with Edinburgh's roads and infrastructure to make the best use of it (eg. Waverley station ramp, Forrest Road filter, QBC at Missoni). Which makes it next to useless for visitors or novices.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "See specifically Ernest Marples who was transport minister"

    Yes.

    Not excusing corruption/vested interests etc., but there is a context.

    Post-war Britain, with various cities bomb damaged, initially a landslide Labour Government promising (and achieving) a lot - houses in the sky, the NHS, a car borne/centric "modern" future for all. The latter based on a vision of emulating America - always more prosperous and not having to rebuild its infrastructure.

    Planners such as Abercrombie and Buchanan planning - roads on stilts through The Meadows, motorways on the canals through Glasgow etc.

    One happened, the other didn't...

    It was led by politicians with "visions" and (largely) public support "never had it so good" (prefaced by "most of our people have") wasn't just an election slogan. The same man also complained about 'selling off the family silver'.

    Now they are good reasons for reversing the idea of a 'car economy' and really making more walking/cycling possible/normal.

    We need politicians with a different "vision" - and leadership - though the sad thing is that on this the public may well be ahead of them...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. SRD
    Moderator

    "What this video also shows is that you really have to be very familiar with Edinburgh's roads and infrastructure to make the best use of it (eg. Waverley station ramp, Forrest Road filter, QBC at Missoni). Which makes it next to useless for visitors or novices"

    Yup. I thought I'd explained the Waverley Ramps to mr SRD, but even with that we wobbled about. Imagine if there'd been traffic on the road!

    On the other hand, because I knew the intersection, I knew we had time to get to the front of the queue from the bike lane. But agree, I would have swung in behind otherwise.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  6. lionfish
    Member

    (Hi all! Was nice to pop by Edinburgh last week!)

    @crowriver: I'd probably agree with you about what's best in hind-sight, but I think what the video shows really well is how high-stress, complicated and unpleasant cycling is on 'quality' 'family friendly' bike routes. I'd probably have hung-back, figuring the danger zone is closer to the corner: But the idea one wrong decision will lead to a horrible accident shouldn't be how we organise our roads!

    Most of the CCE forum are very confident cyclists and able to put out an extra burst of speed to deal with a conflict situation. Thanks SRD for the video: I think it illustrates well the problems faced by the slower cyclists among us :)

    I'll be sending a link to the video and this thread (if that's ok?), to my MSP/Councillors, to try to illustrate to them why a bit of paint on a pavement is useless and why parked cars on bike lanes is such a big deal, and in general how much work is needed.

    The earlier posts in the thread about punishment passes, using horns, etc, are really important: There are roads in the Netherlands where I had to share with cars (*gasp*) and the hire bikes we had were single speed and slow, it took me a long time to get used to the idea that the car/lorry behind me would wait patiently until it's safe to overtake!

    Anyway, ramble over :)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. neddie
    Member

    @SRD. That is exactly the sort of journey I would like to be able make with my family (i.e to town and beyond to the NEPN). Presently I feel I could not subject them to that.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. SRD
    Moderator

    @eddie_h - yeah, city-centre's pretty much a no go zone. NEPN's not that bad. try leamington walk down leamington terrace to canal, then straight down harrison road to russel rd. No dodgy turns (except to cross so as to enter NEPN - duh!).

    totally within a child's ability, as long as you're sure they will pay attention to you, and can ride in a reasonably straight line.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. crowriver
    Member

    On the other hand, because I knew the intersection, I knew we had time to get to the front of the queue from the bike lane.

    Knowledge which a visitor, or novice cyclist would not have. I know most of the central junctions and their light sequences (though not so much George IV bridge), and even then I get caught out sometimes.

    Generally though I now just don't go up the inside of HGVs at the lights. At all.
    Certainly wouldn't consider it with my son on the tandem.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. Greenroofer
    Member

    It was such a nice evening that I thought I'd head home via Harrison Park and video the proposed route of the HP feeder ride. This includes the right turn at the King's Theatre, which I've not used for ages. So this has bike lanes approaching it, and is (I assume) the official route to the Meadows. It took three cycles of the lights before I got into the ASZ. At the next cycle of the lights I had to shuffle the bike sideways out of the ASZ so that a Co-op lorry could make the left turn into Gilmore Place from Morningside Road: it couldn't get round without hitting me.

    So, say I want to take my child on a bike from Shandon to the Meadows. How am I expected to do it? The Kings Theatre junction is barely usable even for an experienced, trained and assertive cyclist like me. I wouldn't do it with my 9 year-old daughter.

    We have a long way to go.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  11. SRD
    Moderator

    @greenroofer

    My thoughts exactly - from last year

    http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/why-we-need-to-pedal-on-parliament.html

    That route is about to be improved though.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. SRD
    Moderator

    Yes, since you ask, it does indeed worry me that chdot and I independently posted that same link at exactly the same moment in two different threads...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Moderator

    Here's a more upbeat look at cycling with a confident child http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/school-run-what-joy.html

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    The wee girl did very well.

    I'm amazed by how quiet the route is. One close pass by a van was a bit scary, but that was it.

    Also your school bike shed is fine, except for the car parked in one half? It has proper stands at least. Our school nigh on discourages cycling, but then the surrounding roads are an order of magnitude busier than the ones near yours.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. Instography
    Member

    Good job. She looked impressively quick. And the shed looks OK. It's covered and it has racks.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    School bike shed envy? The next nearest one is rolls Royce but then so are the sheds at tynecastle high and they don't really get used.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  17. Greenroofer
    Member

    The only depressing thing about SRD's video is one of the related ones that YouTube put beside it, which shows how far we have to go...
    http://www.naden.de/blog/bbvideo-bbpress-video-plugin -->

    [+] Embed the video | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K_omtMbW48

    " target="_blank">Video Download
    Get the Video Widget

    Apart from that, I think it's a great inspiration!

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. sallyhinch
    Member

    I like the way she chooses her line to maximise the amount of time in the sunshine (I do that too!). How long will the POP manifesto last on her bike, I wonder?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. Snowy
    Member

    Nice confident commuting SRD, good pace!

    I admit the new racks in your still photo are very much appreciated. Mostly full most days - I must do a count and see how many bikes we get.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. SRD
    Moderator

    I really should be crediting you lot in more of my blogposts

    http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/5-things-you-need-to-know-before.html

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    "you lot"

    Charming.

    I'm sure some get suitable credit in

    http://cyclefridays.wordpress.com

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. paddyirish
    Member

    @SRD

    "5. Peer pressure is the best: Organize a ride with some friends and your kids will be amazed to find they've cycled 10 or 15 miles easily in a day. Seriously though, not only will they think if he can do it, so can I, but they'll also ride twice as fast with a friend their age as with you. "

    This.

    Example was on Sunday minipaddy went out with Dave C and his clan to Burntisland (micropaddy on the seat on the back and Mrs Paddy to keep an eye on all of us!) Did 15 miles without any real effort. Lots of stops for parks and bribes/ice cream etc.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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