CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

"End of the road for paper maps?"

(67 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from Cyclingmollie

No tags yet.


123

  1. crowriver
    Member

    The ultimate demonstration of a paper map's utility was when I dropped my map case on the road. A huge juggernaut subsequently rolled over it before I could retrieve it. Compass destroyed, but map perfectly fine, just a few creases. If it had been a Garmin or smartphone under the lorry's wheels I would have been not only lost but also substantially out of pocket.

    Having said that, online mapping is useful for route planning (on a desktop machine), checking route distances, etc. I find a paper map better for navigation on the road though.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I like the hierarchy of navigation that's emerging;

    1) GPS (Oil Age tech)
    2) Paper map (Early mediaeval tech?)
    3) Compass (Iron Age tech)
    4) Looking at the sky and landscape (Stone Age tech)

    to which I'd add;

    5) Ask someone the way (Standard tech in all times and places except Oil Age Western Europe)

    I lost the Musselburgh-Penicuick path in a building site and asked a youth where it was. He was delighted to tell me (as I had treated him as an adult) and I was delighted to get directions.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. crowriver
    Member

    Ask someone the way

    Can be great, but folk don't always see the roads from a cycling viewpoint. Also depends how you phrase the question, and the nature of the reply, eg. "Is this the way to such-and-such? Aye, but you can go that way as well."

    If you are lucky, you'll happen across a local cyclist. They should be the best source of directions.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. gembo
    Member

    This works badly in reverse of course, at least when I am asked directions by driver. I have to carefully figure if my route involves narrow ginnel or cutting over a pedestrian crossing etc or through road closed by bollards

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    "If you are lucky, you'll happen across a local cyclist."

    I'd guess that choosing who to ask has been a key skill in all ages and places! My brother once tried to get down with the locals in rural France and asked a bunch of crones where the restaurant was. He followed their directions like a good trusting tourist, only later realising that they were on day release from the local lunatic asylum.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. steveo
    Member

    Yup, I've found myself heading for the Canal or NEPN when I'm driving...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. wingpig
    Member

    2) Paper map (Early mediaeval tech?)
    ...
    4) Looking at the sky and landscape (Stone Age tech)

    Paper hasn't been around for very long but people would probably already have been drawing maps representations of their physical landscape (as well as looking/pointing) on whatever they had to hand (portable or otherwise) during the paleolithic. If folks back then were capable of accurately depicting some components of their environment (particularly beasties, real and imagined) on walls of caves they ought to have been doing plenty of contemporaneous scribbling in the dust.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Paper map (Early mediaeval tech?)

    Quality, accurate and affordable paper maps which are readily publicly available are probably more of a late 19th Century innovation.

    Expensive, innacurate and generally downright wrong paper maps which show you how many acres you own or how much taxes you are due from your peasants are certainly mediaeval.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. wingpig
    Member

    "Expensive, innacurate and generally downright wrong paper maps which show you how many acres you own or how much taxes you are due from your peasants are certainly mediaeval."

    Old local maps we were shown at school seemed to be either a: large sheets of paper with little more than a vague representation of the position of the coast and major waterways yet with the names of every teeny little village carefully written in tiny loopy writing or b: vaguely physically accurate schematics of the local land's arrangement in terms of fields, most of which were marked "Vicar for tithes".

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    "
    England was squeezed between rebellion in Scotland and war with France when King George II commissioned a military survey of the Scottish highlands in 1746. The job fell to William Roy, a far-sighted young engineer who understood the strategic importance of accurate maps, yet his vision of a national military survey wasn't implemented until after his death in 1790.

    "

    http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/about/overview/history.html

    I'm sure some people here have fond memories of 20th C cloth maps.

    Before paper (don't forget the paper for the world's first banknotes was made up the Water of Leith) other materials were available inc. animal skins and parchment.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Before paper (don't forget the paper for the world's first banknotes was made up the Water of Leith) other materials were available inc. animal skins and parchment.

    Hence the name "Bank Mill". There was also a Bank Mill on the Esk at Penicuik, later part of the Cowan's fold, which also specialised in linen paper for bank notes.

    The rag-sorting and storing houses had a habit of catching fire.

    to be pendantic, parchment is animal skin.

    My dad still does on about writing on slates in early 1950s Orwell Primary school.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. PS
    Member

    What about the silk maps the RAF had in WW2? Very dashing.

    And, of course, the Spokes buff map, as modelled by DaveC at last week's meeting.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. Rosie
    Member

    Disadvantage of paper maps - they can flap around and scare horses (which I did once).

    I asked about a map case on the handlebars from the Cycle Co-op. They told me they only had Smartphone fittings.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I asked about a map case on the handlebars from the Cycle Co-op. They told me they only had Smartphone fittings.

    Solution = Otrlieb bar bag and the stud-on map case (also good for hillwalking). Only issue is you need to wedge bluetac into the studs when not using the map case, unless you like endless rattling noises.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. chdot
    Admin

    "to be pendantic, parchment is animal skin."

    Yes (I knew that) - meant papyrus!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    @Rosie, EBC a bit too generalist. Need a touring specialist (mail order) like Spa Cycles or SJS Cycles. (Other bike shops are, of course, available and many do mail order).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    I'd guess that choosing who to ask has been a key skill in all ages and places!

    Can be an issue in the countryside. They might be the only other person you've seen for hours! In much of Scotland, the only other large mammals around outside towns and villages are a few inquisitive livestock, mostly sheep. Maybe they knoiw which direction to take at the crossroads with no signposts, but they can't speak your language.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. EddieD
    Member

    We buy memory foam laptop wallets for the postgrad laptops.

    The ziplock bags they come in make excellent map cases - and with a bit of stiffening and gaffa, you can put them on your handlebars :)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. gembo
    Member

    Decathlon used to sell handlebar map cases. Cheap. Bit flappy.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/zefal-map-holder

    http://www.decathlon.co.uk/map-holder-id_2404604.html

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. cb
    Member

    "Expensive, innacurate and generally downright wrong paper maps which show you how many acres you own or how much taxes you are due from your peasants are certainly mediaeval"

    The Mapmakers
    is an excellent history of the evolution of the map. Interesting the effect that religion had on stifling the progress of map making.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. fimm
    Member

    My father collects OS 7th (I think - 1960s anyway) series 1" maps printed on cloth.
    He's a geographer. He likes maps. He's also got a lot of 1:50000 maps.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. Stickman
    Member

    @fimm:

    My dad too! (Geographer and map collector).

    Last year a geographer friend and his wife visited us from the US. I was giving the grand tour of Edinburgh when we passed the National Library exhibition about Collins. We spent a few hours in there. We then had to stop at the map shop on the Royal Mile.

    His wife had the same resigned look as my mum whenever maps appear. We made it up to her in quality ales and whisky later.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. fimm
    Member

    There's a map shop on the Royal Mile?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. Stickman
    Member

    Carson Clark

    Canongate.

    (Edit - link fixed)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. Rosie
    Member

    Thanks for the tips about map holders. Will definitely get one.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. Slug
    Member

    I was up the Ben couple of months ago with some Hungarian and Polish climbers but due to conditions, we were limited to the tourist track. On reaching the half way lochan, it was whiting out and blowing a hoolie, so we carried on in two groups, my group using map & compass and theirs using GPS.

    We all made it okay, although they were somewhat slower than us, and the reason for that became evident when we got home and downloaded their recorded GPS data. It showed them zigzagging their way - all over the place - to the summit, narrowly avoiding the north face - which had a four metre cornice on it - and the treacherous Five Finger gully on the southern side. Visibility down to no more than a few metres, they could easily have fell through a cornice or wandered into 5 finger. As I was on a bearing, straight up and straight down, no narrow misses and considerably less effort, and although I don't have any recorded data to prove that, I'm happy to stick with map and compass, thank you!

    In saying that, I do have a GPS, but only ever use it to give me a grid reference... which it is very good at!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. cb
    Member

    Presumably if they had used the GPS 'properly' by typing in a destination and navigating to it they would have steered a straighter path?
    It sounds like they were being lazy and watching their position on the on-screen map.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. Slug
    Member

    I have absolutely no idea.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. LaidBack
    Member

    Fimm and Stickman - you both have Geographer dads?

    Recommend they visit The RSGS headquarters in Perth. (Fair Maid's House).

    And not just because I do freelance design work for them.

    Posted 11 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

123

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin