After PoP seems to be a renewed interest about restricting the hours/days people can drive through the Park (and round the back of Arthur's Seat) -
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12676&page=2#post-150568
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Getting Holyrood Park shut (more)
(33 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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No doubt one of the big arguments against this would be access to Dunsapie Loch area for those with limited mobility, the elderly etc. Perhaps HS should look at one of those "road train" type things. It could shuttle around the Seat at 15-20mph, picking up and dropping off at the car parks at Holyrood and the Meadowbank end, Dunsapie and the roundabout near Pollock Halls. Say hourly on winter weekends, half-hourly all summer.
No other motor vehicles allowed up that road. Lots of large parks do this. Southport Marine Park is one I've seen recently.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Not sure the road trains that you see (like the Santa train when Princes Street was shut for tram work) could cope with the hill, but the idea is good.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Assuming that grip wouldn't be an issue it should be possible if the gearing is correct. If it was an electric/hybrid vehicle it would be able to store a lot of the downhill energy to get a boost on the way back up the hill.
If you charge able bodied people for the upwards leg but provide free descents it would even be possible to harvest energy and on a good day run it for free.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"If you charge able bodied people for the upwards leg but provide free descents it would even be possible to harvest energy and on a good day run it for free"
Interesting idea!
Though that would mean more people going downhill than up.
Posted 10 years ago # -
(Photographer unknown)
http://ibikelondon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/want-things-to-change-for-cyclists-in.html
Posted 10 years ago # -
would be access to Dunsapie Loch area for those with limited mobility
One could use the argument that there's already access to the 2 lower-level lochs for the less mobile, and that any closures would seek to make the upper loch more accessible for those not vehicle-borne and only for certain time windows.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Though that would mean more people going downhill than up"
That would all be about getting the price right. I obviously think like an able bodied active individual but would be more inclined to try and get a small family to walk up with the incentive of free ride down the hill on the train than to pay for them to ride all the way round.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Last time we floated this idea the only place I heard the disability argument was on this forum.
The majority of opposition focussed on two issues:
1. - Why can't I enjoy driving through the park? (Answer: because you're spoiling it for others)
2. - Where will all the traffic go if it can't go through the park? (Answer: somewhere else, obviously. Maybe some drivers will leave their cars at home?)The second issue is potentially more tricky, as shutting the park on Sundays definitely increases traffic on London Road*, and probably turns quiet streets like Spring Gardens/Abbeyhill into rat runs.
* - Another factor in this is the free parking in the city centre on Sunday which encourages more traffic. A few may be going to church, but most are probably shopping.
Posted 10 years ago # -
As well as encouraging more traffic, the parking on Sundays is often blocking bus lanes, filter lanes at junctions etc, leaving the traffic with less space to work in.
Has nobody thought of making the buses and trams free on Sundays instead of the parking??
Posted 10 years ago # -
I find that there are many more problems with impatient drivers on the top road past Dunsapie Loch on Sundays when the bottom road is closed. Stands to reason - some drivers will be using it as a way of getting to their destination, rather than as a scenic detour.
[Incidentally, I cope with this by riding up the middle of the road, and only giving way at lay-bys. If the driver is a to$$er and either honks or revs, I just ride slower.]Posted 10 years ago # -
In Cannes, there is a road train that goes up to le Castre, the castle at the top of the hill. It's a tight and steep winding road and the train manages just fine.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It might be valuable to be able to show it's being used as a Sunday rat run. If that's happening, I think that's a problem people would find it easier to get behind fixing.
A letter to Prince Charles might help. He's a bit unpredictable, might ban all vehicles all year.
Posted 10 years ago # -
OR advise that we all take a tincture of heavily diluted car bumper to protect us if we're hit by a car...
Posted 10 years ago # -
I was reading about a 2010 report on restriction of motor traffic on Duddingston Low Road.
LinkIf I understand it right after much debate restriction were not even considered except at off-peak times. Displacing 1000 vehicles a day is "unacceptable".
Highlight is point 17: "Implementing the recommendations of this report would have no direct environmental implications."
No s**t, Sherlock!
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'm sure a lot of people (on here and elsewhere) would like HP shut to through traffic.
2020 might be a nice 'target' to fit in with CEC's '15% by 2020' pledge.
In the meantime it seems perfectly reasonable that -
the top road should be shut to motors when the main section is.
the roads shut be shut on Saturdays too - perhaps start with once a month.
the pavements/cyclepaths should be improved - the cycle only one (which looks like/is a pavement to most people) isn't working.
20mph isn't observed, so needs regular enforcement and/or more/bigger road humps (not to the edge of the carriageway, so bikes can pass easily.
Posted 10 years ago # -
We are developing a good wish list here.
Also need a strategy to take this message to:
Council
Historic Scotland
Scottish ParliamentPetition to Council was tried last year. Didn't pass the threshold. Was it too "extreme"? Wrong wording? Wrong tactic?
Needs some thought and political nous to achieve any of these aims. Experience of the Duddingston residents does not bode well! Have views within the Council and other bodies changed sufficiently in the past 4 years?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Could this model of a 'Street Review' from Living Streets be useful?
Could "we" do a community review of Queen's Drive and other 'streets' in Holyrood Park as a starting point?
Posted 10 years ago # -
The few times I've tried cycling down the path from the Commonwealth pool to Holyrood recently it's been so rough and congested that I wonder why I bothered.
Although the road isn't much better. If you leave yourself any braking space between you and the car in front there's normally someone waiting to squeeze past you and fill it up.
Posted 10 years ago # -
On Saturday I was cycling with family from Parliament to the Commonwealth Poll entrance, and the "cycle path" is far, far too narrow, and the integration with the road network is rubbish.
It looks like a pavement and feels like pavement, and is a pavement with some cycle symbols painted on. It is far too narrow to pass another cyclist, never mind have 2 people side by side enjoying a conversation while someone overtakes, especially with the slow uphill and kids using it. The access on and off it is haphazard and feels like a pedestrian crossing, and not a nice transition from the legalised pavement cycling path on to or from the road.
I agree with @acsimpson re leaving space for braking and some car just barges in, even when there is a roughly constant distance between you and the vehicle in front.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I suppose if the 20mph speed limit was enforced then bicycles would also have to stick to it as well... On the way back from PoP I recorded a record top speed for my hybridised MTB of around 35mph coming down the road.
When I entered the park from the Commonwealth Pool end on Thursday morning I ended up briefly travelling the wrong way up the one way road to gain access to the green cycle path via the dropped kerb. Confusing.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I suppose if the 20mph speed limit was enforced then bicycles would also have to stick to it as well"
No
Bikes don't have to have speedos and not subject to speed limits.
However there are laws about 'fast and furious' etc.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Ah, that's ok then - I was going fast but wasn't furious.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Bikes don't have to have speedos and not subject to speed limits."
You learn something new every day.
Incidentally what are the current rules regarding cycling off the marked routes in the Royal Park?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Questions and Answers regarding traffic regulations at Holyrood Park"
http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/faqs-traffic-regs-holyrood.pdf
Posted 10 years ago # -
Good to see HS perpetuating the 'road tax' myth
Posted 10 years ago # -
Previous thread
Posted 10 years ago # -
Well I cycled through the park this morning, about 10.30am. Not much speeding, as it was a bit congested. However I spotted three commercial vehicles on Queen's Drive between Commie Pool and Scotsman roundabout: a tour coach with tourist inside (turning from the High Road too!); a flat bed truck with a crane for loading pallets of building materials; and a plumber's van with logo and phone number clearly displayed.
The coach may have been unaware of the ban, or may have obtained a permit. So benefit of the doubt given. But the trades vehicles were just flagrantly flouting the law for a short cut.
So much for the ban on commercial vehicles, eh? E-mail to Historic Scotland/Police Scotland coming up...
Posted 10 years ago # -
The coach may have been unaware of the ban, or may have obtained a permit.
Probably the latter.
But the trades vehicles were just flagrantly flouting the law for a short cut.
Happens all the time. Just another of the driving laws the police don't enforce.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
For a long time, Spokes has been concerned at the way the lower roads through the Park are increasingly dominated by commuter, motor traffic to the detriment of quiet enjoyment of this unique landscape by both residents and tourists. We are particularly concerned at the poor level of provision for cyclists.
"
http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1604-Holyrood-Park-Richard-for-circular.pdf
Posted 8 years ago #
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