CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
"extensive facilities for cyclists" (and expensive too!) - St. James 'Quarter'
(126 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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but on scrutiny of the detail from Henderson Global, I see no obvious integrated provision for maximising the Leith Street and Picardy Place junctions towards improving the lot of the cyclist!
Yes, it's noticeable that there is no change to current layouts in the plans, but I assumed that was because that is the Council's bag not the developer's.
There should be changes as a result of the Leith Walk works by then?
I would also hope the Council would take the redevelopment as a perfect opportunity to sort out Picardy Place (how about a pedestrianised plaza with public transport interchange?) and Leith Street (any change to the current pro-car/anti-person canyon would be an improvement).
Posted 9 years ago # -
"May need a new thread for this thought?"
Good idea...
"I see no obvious integrated provision for maximising the Leith Street and Picardy Place junctions towards improving the lot of the cyclist!"
Or anyone else (as you say).
There are undoubtedly a lot of 'vested interests' in all this.
Some have no need to consider 'the greater good'.
Some may consider that 'any development is good development' and (might) lead to crumbs for 'planning gain'.
Some (perhaps related to the others) consider that the 'planning system means we can only consider each application on its merits and not (enough) how it relates to other existing things or future possibilities'.
Also (directly related to last) 'well we can consider things and try to impose conditions, but if the developers don't like them they could appeal - and might win, and that would be expensive...'
Posted 9 years ago # -
Actually, Rabid's map features the return of the building in the middle of Picardy Place. I don't remember that featuring in the fly-around video that was on the Evening News website a couple of weeks ago. Is that an old plan?
Posted 9 years ago # -
"I would also hope the Council would take the redevelopment as a perfect opportunity to sort out Picardy Place"
Might take more than hope...
Then there was the plan for a hotel on the PP roundabout, don't know of that was just random kiteflying.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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Might take more than hope...
True, it might take a spot of vision, but that can be in short supply...
Here's mine - heading from Leith Walk/London Road entrance to this massive St James car park somewhere in front of the Playhouse (going underground), and remaining traffic down to one lane up Leith Street. Big pedestrianised area above ground including tram and bus interchange & bike hire station. Strong message that this is the gateway to Edinburgh city centre and you can now get out and walk (or cycle or tram or bus) from here.
It'll never happen.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Maybe AMA Architects could let us all in on their latest plans then"
Now you're just being optimistic!
Posted 9 years ago # -
@PS
I suspect there are people at CEC who share some/all of your 'vision'
I also think they may be outnumbered and there will need to be STRONG political will/direction to make a big difference to what is currently 'on offer'.
To do stuff to the 'public realm' costs money. In general CEC expects (hopes) developers will pay. Not sure how much the council collected for 'the tram' - even where the line was actually built!
The improvements for Leith Walk happened largely (I believe) because of 'us' (in the widest sense) with money from SG rather than developers.
For this one it seems the idea is for SG to give money to the developers!
All the more reason for 'us' to expect direct benefits not based on the old notion of providing lots of parking so people can spend more money with the same old multinational fashion (etc.) brands.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
CONTROVERSIAL new powers to evict stubborn business owners from the ill-fated St James Centre are set to be introduced as the countdown to demolition ticks away.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
As someone said in the comments, it really should be seen as an opportunity to broker a deal with the operators of the Waverley Mall to get retailers to take up empty units there. Of course, that may already be happening behind the scenes but it wouldn't make as as good a story for the the EEN.
Posted 9 years ago # -
If the developer has a genuine appetite to now move on with Cooncil help and develop this site, then I'm certain they will help 'relocate/incentivise' the remaining businesses to move elsewhere nearby?! I just hope they incorporate proper pedestrian/cyclist corridors to allow easy access to and movement through the re-juvenated East End...
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
HGI could be open to the loan deal – estimated at around £80m – with Leith, one of the most densely populated city suburbs, seen as a huge potential market for the shopping complex.
The council is currently saddled with tram repayments of £15.3m per year as part of a 30-year payment plan borrowed at a rate of 5.1 per cent.
A £231m rescue loan was signed in 2011 to help bankroll the curtailed 8.7-mile line from the airport to York Place.
It means the city is paying out £228m in interest under the terms of the loan – tipping the £776m tram budget over the £1bn mark.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
A bit adventurous but in my book the real win would be to put in a subterranean chamber, the width of Princes Street from St Andrew Street to Leith Street, with clearances to permit the tram to run through it and emerge centrally in Leith Street as the road drops down the hill to Picardy Place. From details on the construction of Scotland Street tunnel it would appear that George Street is largely a sand ridge (perhaps a raised beach?) as the tunnel was driven through running sand according to the details recorded. Scotland Street Tunnel could also be used to move the excavated material away from the site.
A Tram stop at Waverley, forming the connecting directly through Waverley Market's lower levels to Waverley Station and under cover/arcade route to St Andrew's Square Coach Station and the new St James's Centre, with buy in access offered to the Balmoral Hotel, and the Prime Clients in 1 Waterloo Place (the former Post Office building)
This underground detail would sort out the conflicting junction movements at the top of Broughton Street, and on York Place, and potentially prime the route to go underground along Princes Street - as many European cities are doing to offer the speed and convenience of the tram in a busy city centre.
In the end its all about footfall, and the potential for getting a large number of rail passengers the shortest distance from trains to the St James's Centre & coach station, to trams, and through the trams the length of Princes Street, all under cover should provide a substantially bigger number of people passing through the lower levels of the Waverley Market.
Posted 9 years ago # -
http:/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/leith-street-car-ban-bid-for-st-james-quarter-1-3462103
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Alex Wilson, vice-chair of the Leith Business Association, said: “Our members would be quite concerned about any move to restrict the flow of traffic through Leith Street. Traffic flow means trade. "
Ach a fi.
"“People tend to lose sight of the fact Leith Walk is the A900, and is part of our strategic road network. It just happens to be called Leith Walk. It’s an artery with very, very heavy traffic.”"
I'm sure it happened to be called Leith Walk (or its component constituent streetlets) long before it was designated the A900. It's clogged at the top for an hour in the morning but is otherwise distinctly less heavily-traffic-filled than normally represented.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Apparently it's not Leith Walk, it's the A900.
and: "Traffic flow means trade"
and: "It’s an artery with very, very heavy traffic."
Posted 9 years ago # -
There is a map dated 1780 in the National Library which shows both Leith Walk and the "Easter Road to Leith" - so I'm not entirely convinced on the A900 bit.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400070
Unless the chap is running a drive-thru, its difficult to see how traffic flow equals trade, especially on Leith Street which is an urban dual carriageway/greenway with no parking.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"its difficult to see how traffic flow equals trade"
Now you're expecting people to be rational about transport matters!...
Posted 9 years ago # -
Here is the thread where edd1e_h posted the link to the Sustrans plan:
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11765
(http://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/sustrans-ideas-picardy-place-edinburgh)
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
EXPERTS have warned that gifting common good land at Picardy Place to hotel developers could cost the city “millions”.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
The removal of the Picardy Place roundabout – dubbed a “cyclist blender” due to perceived safety risks
Close, but not quite - the "cyclist blender" was part of the awful first draft of proposed plans for Leith Walk.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
“We’ve been able to do a deal for the movement of demolition materials from the St James site and we’ll play our part in getting building materials to it as well,” he says.
"
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/john-mclellan-make-most-of-leith-docks-1-3480891
Interesting that Forth Ports plans to 'export' the St James' Quarter rubble down Leith Walk.
I HOPE that will be carefully managed/monitored - tipper trucks are notorious (in London at least) for the disproportionate numbers of bicycle 'incidents'.
20mph for LW bit more urgent(?)
Posted 9 years ago # -
I suspect with tipper trucks its not the speed that kills.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Good. I hate that bridge. It seems to be mainly of use to yobs who want to throw stuff at people walking (or cycling) underneath.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I was on that bridge once but never gets used as far as I know (expects correction in the post). Obviously, I meant by pedestrians. It is used frequently by yobs who wish to lob blobs at the people down below.
Yo boys what is the derivation, I will googlee. Should read yobbos
Ah I googled it in Brewer's (well looked up the book) and feel faintly stupid. Quite common
Yob is back-slang
So a girl can't be a yob.
Posted 9 years ago # -
According to oxford dictionary on line.
British informal
A rude, noisy, and aggressive youth.
The origin is mid 19th century: back slang for boy.If using the word Yob in the current use would think could be used irrespective of gender.
I don’t think the origin has inhibited that in this case, think its just how people have used a word rather than how was orginally created, that makes correctness in respect to words.Posted 9 years ago # -
"it is understood the door has been left open for a its (the Leith St Bridge) relocation elsewhere."
That bridge should be put over the South Suburban Line.
Posted 9 years ago #
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