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Chris Hoy hits out at “stupid” cyclists

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "and as luck would have it are in the Sciennes PS catchment"

    Similar.

    We were in the JGHS before kids - but probably didn't know.

    Then moved slightly and was in a different primary catchment which happened to be Bruntsfield which then fed into JGHS - even though almost next to Boroughmuir.

    So (almost) chance where they went. First consideration was 'live close to centre of town'.

    In Edinburgh 'inner city' means something very different to most places!

    Being near to a very good state school was a bonus. League table good, but a whole more to it than that. A lot of Edinburgh parents send their kids to local primary then private.

    Obviously there are individual reasons, but whether they always get a better education is debatable (and largely unknowable).

    Chris Hoy did well in cycle sport because of basic talent AND putting in the effort - plus having the family background where he was encouraged and driven to BMX races. I think that was just his father when he was in Scotia BMX.

    Watson's might have preferred him to stick to rowing.

    And yes, he IS a genuinely nice person.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. minus six
    Member

    the other thing Thatcher did was to abolish rent controls. Suddenly in the 1980s tenants paid "market" rents instead of regulated ones, were easier to evict, etc...

    ...ditto overhauling the rates system, which was already factored into private rents, yet wasn't taken back out when rates were replaced by the 'Community Charge' and subsequently Council Tax

    that was truly a massive grab for the private landlord

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. crowriver
    Member

    Or do they scrape a 2.1 and their blithe self-confidence enables them to prosper in job interviews etc?

    Some will, to be sure. Others will have "connections" through family, or have arranged internships while studying through those same links. Then there are those who have a private income and couldn't care less about getting a job, at least not immediately.

    Time was, not very long ago (1990s) when getting a permanent contract as a BBC researcher or producer (for example) depended on going to the "right" school. Nothing to do with the quality of your degree, though expected to have one, of course. Even at formal interviews for traineeships for technical grades (eg. cameraman, sound recordist) often leading questions about the type of sports you played. Apparently rugby favoured over football.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. gembo
    Member

    Don't wish to twist this thread even further into life the universe and everything but fee paying schools have a minor industry in exam arrangements (extra time, scribed answers etc - you can get this in the state sector too of course but to a lesser degree). Much of the sport done outwith school day, eg Saturday, and tons of hpmework set cf state.

    Edinburgh has much bigger percentage of pupils at private than elsewhere in Scotland.

    Good state schools in many other parts of Edinburgh that are miles from Peter's yard and where house prices used to be more affordable.

    I like to trace the root of all evils to thatcher, allowing pupils to go out of catchment, buy council house etc but hve been pulled up here before for naming the evil within one human, if she was human.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. Dave
    Member

    I know I'm unlikely to wrestle this anywhere near the OP, but I did manage to put together some deranged rambling on the original topic:

    http://mccraw.co.uk/hoy-cyclists-collective-responsibility/

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. minus six
    Member

    hve been pulled up here before for naming the evil within one human

    Orwell pulled Charles Dickens up for this, in one of his excellent critical essays, pointing out that while Dickens was scathing of social injustice he focused always on the henchman, never pointing the finger at the hidden hand, which is why he remained popular in his day.

    Churchill concludes much the same in the speech i linked to upthread - blame the system, not the individual.

    But in the case of Thatcher - well it is fair game, isn't it.. Thatcher WAS the very embodiment of the system..

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. crowriver
    Member

    @Dave, yeah I like how the mobile phone driver is wearing a hi-viz jacket. Better safe than sorry, eh?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. gkgk
    Member

    @Nelly.

    their suicide rate is 50% higher than the UK. Which brings us neatly back to the question - If they are so happy, why are so many of them offing themselves??

    The Finnish suicide headline stat for 2012 is 16.0 per 100k. This is lower than Glasgow (17.2) and Highlands (18.0) or Shetland (26.5). We're at 15.9 in Lothian. These UK figures I list are 2009-12 averages.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. Nelly
    Member

    gkgk - we did this earlier today....apples and pears

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. Instography
    Member

    @gembo
    Mike Gonzalez?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. crowriver
    Member

    Edinburgh has much bigger percentage of pupils at private than elsewhere in Scotland.

    Apparently city wide it is 25% of school age children (mostly secondary). In some areas (presumably the more prosperous ones) it is as high as 40%.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. Instography
    Member

    I've never been too sure of that statistic. If I remember correctly it is the percentage of pupils at Edinburgh private schools as a percentage of all pupils at school in Edinburgh. It doesn't take account of where they live. Not sure how many kids travel into Edinburgh to go to private schools but since I don't know that many people in Limekilns, yet I know half a dozen families with daughters at Mary Erskines, I'm going to stick my neck out at say that the percentage would be much lower if it were Edinburgh resident kids at private school.

    But then the last time I had cause to look at this, the data on independent schools hadn't been updated since 2009.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. gkgk
    Member

    @ Nelly Quite right, 1000 apologies. No matter, I'm changing tack anyway - I've now thinking that suicides are very rare and extreme cases, happiness outliers, a poor indicator of general population happiness.

    After all, Finns were at their most suicidal during the 1965-90 economic boom. And we in the UK, went all suicidal when Angie on Eastenders did, then bounced back after a week or two. Just not a good population happiness indicator.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. Slug
    Member

    @ DG145 " ... come the revolution (and I don't mean EBC's own brand bike stuff)"

    Thanks for clarifying that, DG. My initial reaction was to respond with some cheap comment regarding the word, 'Giant', but not associated with a bike brand! ;)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. gembo
    Member

    @insto

    si on mike the moustaches and si on that 25% represents the people travelling in to private school from North Berwick! modest houses in Dalgety bay where they don't answer the door after six and have spent all the money on their only child to get him the education they want. I am not criticising people for doing this I am just saying I am aware it ain't all landed gentry

    Young chap I know went to uni and met Edinburgh boys from private school. The lad I know of went compy. He was surprised when visiting his new pals parents houses to find them far more modest than his parents.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. SRD
    Moderator

    I've always been baffled that that stat on private schools keeps being repeated, when - as insto illustrates - it clearly doesn't represent what people claim it does.

    The parents' houses may be modest but their cars sure don't tend to be....

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    @Insto, I've never been too sure of that statistic. If I remember correctly it is the percentage of pupils at Edinburgh private schools as a percentage of all pupils at school in Edinburgh.

    Yeah that's probably right. ISTR it was quoted verbally at me by a Council education officer. Also I think I saw the same figure in a report on Edinburgh catchments/school rolls a couple of years ago (probably from 2009/10). The one where they predicted Gillespie's HS catchment would be full by 2015 (the same report also proposed moving the Gaelic unit from Gillespie's to Tynecastle HS to relieve pressure on numbers but after being leaned on by aspirational parents that's been quietly shelved).

    Anyway anecdotally there does seem to be quite a high proportion of kids going to private secondary school. Our primary school is not in a particularly prosperous area (unless you count millionaire's row up on Calton Hill, but I don't think they send their kids to the local primary). It is also a small school, and was below capacity until a few years ago (when my son started, typical, his class is bursting full). A very small P7 last year, only around 12 kids (some having moved to better HS catchments in P5/P6). Of them, 3 went to private school, 2 of them on bursary places I understand. That's exactly 25%. As I say, anecdotal and may be a blip, but seems to bear out the Council figures.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. Instography
    Member

    Invidious consumption.

    When M was sorting out her "company car" I was surprised at how cheap BMWs and Mercs are. I guess they hold their resale value because they weren't terrifically much more to lease than a Ford Mondeo.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. SRD
    Moderator

    You obviously don't cycle past either heriots or watsons in the mornings. check out the kerbs at george square some day between 3 and 4. lined with massive new 4x4s.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. crowriver
    Member

    the people travelling in to private school from North Berwick

    Loretto only a few stops away.

    it ain't all landed gentry

    Don't they tend to go to Fettes? There's a hierarchy of private schools, a bit like universities. There are the schools for the officer class, the ones for future government ministers and financiers, those for the arty bohemian set, and the ones for children of small business owners who've done well.

    Frankly I find the whole phenomenon dreadful in its snobbery, class bias and self-perpetuating cronyism. It symbolises everything that is wrong with this country. I know that those who make use of the system feel the opposite way. Well they would, wouldn't they?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. Min
    Member

    Here here. Or should I say, yaw yaw?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "There's a hierarchy of private schools, a bit like universities"

    So you can go to the wrong sort of private school...

    I think Watson's (where CHoy went) is quite 'comprehensive' compared with some.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. crowriver
    Member

    So you can go to the wrong sort of private school...

    Depends where the ex-pupil wants to go in life. Steiner schools reputedly good if you want to be an artist or an ecologist. Fettes good if you want to work in the City or become Prime Minister, apparently.

    I think Watson's (where CHoy went) is quite 'comprehensive' compared with some.

    Seems to be more of a middling school right enough, based on the Old Watsonians I've met over the years.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. Instography
    Member

    @SRD
    Is that for me? No, I don't but I know what you mean. What I meant was that if you want to create the illusion of wealth, "Executive" or flash cars are an easy way to do it.

    Currently, through company leasing, you can have a Ford Mondeo for £244 a month, an E Class Mercedes for £299 or a Porsche Cayman for £450. It's easy enough to be a company so you need to have a decent income but you don't need to be a millionaire. Jaguar XF for £299?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    "It's easy enough be a company so you need to have a decent income"

    I know company vehicle rules keep getting 'tightened', but presume still some degree of 'tax deductible' advantage(?)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. Instography
    Member

    I should say so, especially if you do a lot of company driving. You get to offset the business costs against tax and reclaim a proportion of the VAT payable on the lease cost. There's the taxable benefit of personal use that partially offsets those but on the whole it's still beneficial. It's one way that the tax system incentivises driving.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    "It's one way that the tax system incentivises driving"

    Especially bigger cars(?)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. PS
    Member

    Going back to Chris Hoy:

    Hoy and Pendleton among 14 Olympic cycle stars calling on councils to back and fund #cyclesafe http://thetim.es/1iXKOZP pic.twitter.com/3rL3ldvPxd

    Posted 10 years ago #

  29. neddie
    Member

    I thought they'd solved the issue of large company cars racking up 100s of thousands of miles 'just for the tax benefit'.

    These days aren't the 'company car' incentives much greater for low emissions mid-sized vehicles?

    Perhaps I am wrong...?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  30. Dave
    Member

    Wow, if it wasn't for the fact we put oily bikes in it and throw kayaks on the roof, I'd be seriously tempted by a leased car.

    When you look at the costs, it makes you realise that the flash motors on the road aren't really displaying that much wealth.

    Ours is very modest for the neighbourhood and it would probably only cost another £100 - 150 pcm over existing costs to just lease a new German prestige model every couple of years.

    Hmm...

    Posted 10 years ago #

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