These are in Dalkeith so not CEC I realise, but they're very close to Edinburgh and very annoying with a trailer:
First one is here:
Next one along is here
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
CEC and chicanes
(230 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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has anyone else had issues with the bollard on the cycle path beside the Hospital/ Little France [ the 1 leading to Greendykes]?
It appears there are 4 lights now not working there and the bollard is black...
Why even have a bollard there in the first place ?
That is purely a cycle/ walking path.Apparently this path doesn't belong to the council...
Posted 10 years ago # -
One of the actions of the "Meadows Cycling-Pedestrian Group"* (chaired by Cameron Rose) is to install chicanes:
Install barrier chicane arrangement at the Melville Drive end of Jawbone Walk to discourage cycle use (within existing fencing). By the end of March 2015.
It should be noted that the proposed chicane barrier at the south end of Jawbone Walk received objections at the recent NP meeting and, as a result, has been put on hold. It is the intention to postpone the action timescale until next financial year and assign a later completion date to allow further consideration / consultation.
Trial the installation of [hexagonal] planters to form a chicane o path junction at Meadow Place, south of Melville Drive. This chicane could assist in channelling northbound cyclists further east to use Middle Meadow Walk when approaching from the south. Signage should also be reviewed at this location. (complete Nov 2014)
Plus they are wasting a load of money putting in new tactiles and moving some of the existing ones.
*Part of South Central Neighbourhood Partnership
Posted 9 years ago # -
Oh, not more tactiles! The orientation of those tactile things ie slots in the direction of travel for cyclists and perpendicular for pedestrians is an absolute disgrace. The decision to align them in that way was clearly not by a committee containing cyclists - at least not cyclists with road tyres. if I cycle along NMW or the path along past St Marys in Leith I choose to avoid the side they're on to avoid the possibility of falling and in doing so have to apologise to any pedestrians who don't realise the issue.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I feel that cyclists with any input to any group should make the case that chicanes, tactiles, bollards serve no purpose that the proposers of these measures imagine. They are universally detrimental. The only conceivable reason for a chicane might be, as chdot says in the first post in this thread, so save (very young) people from running into a road, but I'm not even convinced by this; is there any evidence?
As far as Jawbone Walk is concerned there should be no chicane or tactiles, and limited signage except maybe one friendly prominent sign at each end with words to the effect of: "This is a shared path. Please walk and ride considerately." To be accompanied with the standard blue pedestrian and cyclist sign, with perhaps a smiley face.
We have to encourage the idea that pedestrians and cyclists are not antagonists, but have many common interests.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The Meadows 'tactiles' are the only place I regularly lose traction in Edinburgh. Regular front and rear-end slides. As ever, consider what would happen if short skid-pans were built across motorways to 'warn' of an impending junction.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Indeed I were right about that saddle. Although there are rumble strips towards the end of motorways at least they are perpendicular to the direction of travel, presumably because they are more effective at speed reduction than if they were in the direction of travel!!
Posted 9 years ago # -
I think, Bigjack, that these 'tramline' tactiles are there, not as a speed recuction device, but to indicate to partially sighted pedestrians that they are on the cycle side of the path. Now, I don't want to do anything to disadvantage the partially sighted, but are they effective? What's to stop a partially sighted person drifting into the cycle lane where there are no tactiles? Surely, this is a case where the cyclist will just ride around the partially sighted person if they are accidentally in the wrong section, without the need for slippy, dangerous tactiles in the cycle section.
Posted 9 years ago # -
ih, too many past threads on the minutia of tactile flags to go searching for the best ones... - but the correct arrangement on a shared segregated path is a raised delineator strip that extends the length of the path. In Edinburgh we have white paint instead, which is unhelpful at best to those with limited or no sight. Compare with:
The four-bar tramline tactiles were designed to be 'more comfortable' to cyclists when placed longitudinally; the other orientation on the footway provides differentiation. I have no idea whether the effects of leaf mulch and slush and snow were practically considered.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thanks Arellcat. The raised strip is a lot more sensible, and useful to the partially sighted, than a couple of tactile flags. So long as the raised strip doesn't itself become a hazard for cycles that might have to cross it!
Posted 9 years ago # -
As I've already said the orientation of the tactiles with the strips in the direction of travel is dangerous and just defies logic. I know they are there to help partially sighted people but surely they would still serve that purpose if they were positioned the other way!!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Anyone spotted visually impaired folk on Stenhouse path or meadows,? Sounds risky to me.
I cross to the ped side as safer but I also slow down which is the point of them I conclude.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I always cross over to use the pedestrian side - not willing to end up in A&E over some nicety using the "tram line" bike side.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I ride them every day. No falls. No slips.
Wonder why?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Wonder why?
Tyre size quite probably. I find the tactiles pretty slidy with any sort of damp on them.
Posted 9 years ago # -
what width of tyre do you use SRD?
edit: useless post - kaputnik got there first
Posted 9 years ago # -
Folder's tyres pretty narrow. Can't recall specs at the mo.
I don't like the things, but they're the required design, and it don't see the point to whinging about them.
I just wish council would put in the requisite median strip as well.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The council could stop putting them at corners as that's clearly dangerous. Clearly to everyone but the council anyway
Posted 9 years ago # -
I don't like the things, but they're the required design, and it don't see the point to whinging about them.
Just because they are the correct type of flag (how many attempts did the council take to procure those?) doesn't mean they should be located where they are. Or there at all...
Posted 9 years ago # -
I felt my Surly slipping on those tactiles in the meadows after PY the other week so I don't think it is tyre width or knobbylness. Don't know what it could be though!
Posted 9 years ago # -
I can occasionally feel a 28mm Armadillo at >100psi or a 35mm Armadillo at 90psi being deflected slightly by them (specifically only on the westernmost set on MMW and the westernmost set outside St. Mary's), but only when they're both wet and leaf-decay-product-y. As I'm always going at a sensibly low they're not much of a problem, but I appreciate that someone trying to go too fast across them might think differently.
Slightly related: lots of wheelgrab on the weird block/grass path thing opposite the palace car park with 30mm Schwalbe Winters, whereas there's usually none on 28/35mm Armadilloes.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Required design by whom? I would support a measure where the balance of good outweighs the balance of bad. Tactiles like these are definitely on the bad side. They are unecessary, dangerous, and useless for the purpose intended. This is doubly so when they are partnered by a chicane (Leith Links) which forces the pedestrian into the cycle path.
Slightly raised median line - good.
Posted 9 years ago # -
If I do have to ride on the bike side due to a horde of vulnerable blind grannies etc, it hasn't resulted in disaster so far. I have to ford a river on my commute so if I'm concentrating, slippery tramline flagstones are still not really up there as a hazard.
I started out with an open mind until I almost spilled on NMW and that was enough for me. I'm not interested in taking risks just because the same people who build 50cm bike lanes on dual carriageways say that the flagstones are in the right place :)
Posted 9 years ago # -
@ih - in Leith Links do you not just ride around the whole thing on the grass?
Our office is not too far from the links and we often go there for running training over lunch, and almost every rider just throws in the towel and bumps around on the
grassmud.Posted 9 years ago # -
Hi Dave. Rather defeats the purpose of the path if you have to use the mud! But I have been tempted to do that. Again, chicane and tactiles useless on Leith Links and a waste of the infra budget in installing them.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
This final phase mainly includes path improvements across the west side of Leith Links.
...
Proposals to widen the current sub-standard chicanes, additional tree planting and improved markings. The current arrangement is restrictive for cyclists and pedestrians leading to cyclists using the adjacent grass.
"
http://www.citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12173&page=7&replies=208#post-175651
Posted 9 years ago # -
@chdot thanks for link to meeting. Can anyone attend? I notice that the deadline for comments is about 2 weeks after the meeting!
Posted 9 years ago # -
what i think is crazy about the tactless on NMW is that they're everywhere although no one knows that they signify while they have put in very few bike signs, which are what most users expect to see.
also agree that that tactiles on corners are particularly bad.
Think it is worth pushing for proper installation with raised median - or full segregation - but lobbying against their implementation is not going to go anywhere.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"tactless on NMW"
*like*
Posted 9 years ago # -
The NMW tactiles are still wrong, of course, at least if I have understood correctly. They're supposed to be one kind of tiles on the pedestrian side, and a different kind of tile on the cyclists side. NMW has cyclist style tiles throughout.
I don't suggest anyone points this out, though, or we might get pedestrian tiles on the cyclist side, which would be worse.
I've taken to using NMW rather than Melville Drive recently - but I think I'll go back to the road while there is ice/snow/leafjam about. I've started having "interesting" moments on the tactiles - to start with I wasn't having problems.
Posted 9 years ago #
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