CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

CEC and chicanes

(118 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by chdot
  • Latest reply from threefromleith

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Anyone casually reading this forum can't fail to have noticed some 'issues'.

    It's not just that 'we' (some of us at least) don't like them.

    I think we accept that there are occasions when cyclers should be persuaded to slow down for genuine safety (usually of pedestrians) reasons.

    There are places where (very young) people are thought to need a 'reminder' not to run straight onto a road.

    There are places where the intention is to restrict/deny motorcycle access.

    Any chicanes (like the most despised triple ones) that restrict motorbikes will restrict/exclude tandems, buggies and wheelchairs so have been outlawed and removed(?)

    In addition quite a few have been added/repositioned in recent months. Almost all have had to be moved again - usually after a mention on CCE! Coincidence?

    Of course 'contractors' usually get the blame, but if they are so difficult 'to get right' clearly they need better instructions and/or supervision...

    Currently 'No 1 issue' is Paddockholm (initial CCE report favourable!)

    Recently there has been the Leith Links saga (unfinished I think).

    Previously there was Crawford Bridge.

    At least those chicanes have serious 'warning metal objects in the way' indicators!

    Are there any standards or guidelines anywhere?...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. steveo
    Member

    I really must take a measuring tape to the one before the canal bridge at Westburn Middlefield. I have to get off the racer to get round, I can't imagine a wheel chair user would manage.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. SRD
    Member

    you forgot Hermiston village which started this year's chicane revelry

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    True.

    Though I don't think that was the same sort of thing(?)

    Just another example of (generally) inconveniencing 'active travellers'!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. SRD
    Member

    no,. i think it was, wasn't it? they came back and said the chicanes were inappropriately positioned and would be moved.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    Ah OK, was mixing it up with some 'pedestrian refuge' ironmongery.

    But that's a whole other topic!

    Eg York Place at top of Dublin St!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. Morningsider
    Member

    Cycling by Design includes guidance on standards for chicanes (and bollards) at:

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/strategy-and-research/publications-and-consultations/j185500-06.htm#accesscontrols

    All fairly easy to understand.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. wingpig
    Member

    There's also the pair at the Easter Road/Thorntreeside end of the Restalrig Railway Path, which were widened last year.

    Also related: the issue of it taking almost a year for the previous (now presumably residing somewhere on one of Dalton's scrapheaps) Leith Links chicanes to have some reflectives applied.

    There's also an especially narrow one between Mountcastle Crescent and the wee road which leads to Fishwifeses Causeway.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. Coxy
    Member

    The one's at the North end of the bridge from the Christians to Portobello/Joppa over the railway and harry Lauder Road

    https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=eh15+2bx&ll=55.949732,-3.109091&spn=0.000342,0.000501&hnear=Edinburgh+EH15+2BX,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=h&z=21

    Admittedly, it's mainly to stop cyclists heading off down the steps by accident (you can still do it on purpose), but it does take a little concentration to get round it on a normal bike. No hope, I'm sure, with a tandem, trailer, etc. Especially when heading south and you've just turned a sharp right to get on to it!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. SRD
    Member

    ah yes, chdot has a pic of me pushing tandem over/thru that. ramp did me in before the chicane test. (i wasn't/am not well)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. kaputnik
    Member

    There's a horrific set on the H2EP route (number 9 now?) at cut through from Dovecot Road to Broomhall Road. The one at the Dovecot end is bypassed by a well-worn desire line, but the narrow lane (further narrowed by overgrown privet hedges) is very difficult to negotiate in and out of for all concerned (wheeled and legged).

    I actually think they are the stop-children-running-into-the-road variety and are a legacy from days gone by.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. crowriver
    Member

    Don't forget these beauties in Granton, at the start of the bumpy poo slope path that leads to a concrete caisson/Heras fencing barrier, with non-dropped kerb onto West Shore Road, thence to Cramond Prom.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Member

    and the bollards on the Dalry side of telfer subway which don't fit a double trailer through...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    Tactiles too!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    Bollards!

    Presume those are to stop pavement parking - need some more on the rest of the street!

    (Those are both on Route 20)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. PS
    Member

    I think the top ones are to prevent drivers ignoring the fact that the road is closed and simply driving over the pavement.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Yes, but in some other places there are just railings.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. Kenny
    Administrator

    The chicane at Corstorphine Bank Drive / Forrester Road is difficult to run through, never mind get a bicycle through!

    http://goo.gl/maps/C2W5c

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. gembo
    Member

    Hermiston village can be taken slowly now without stopping but is closer to the actual road though the road is a dead end so not huge amount of traffic. I never had an issue with it but chap who takes kid to nursery at Heriot watt in a tow along can get through it now more easily

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. HankChief
    Member

    Great thread...

    I think we had a go at listing them before before. Sadly not much has changed in a year.

    My personal bugbears are the ones mentioned by Kenny & Kappers above, as they prevent me (fully laden) from accessing quiet routes.

    As luck would have it I've recently been in contact with CEC about getting them fixed.

    Here is their response

    Regarding the path between Dovecot Road and Broomhall Road we will consider options to alter the chicane arrangement. Unfortunately the path is not adopted by the Council and we do not therefore have any powers to require the owners of the hedge to cut it back.

    Next time I pass I think I'll knock on the door and ask nicely for hedge owner to cut it back. It no where near as neat as when streetview went past.

    Regarding the path between Forrester Road and Corstorphine Bank Drive this is also not adopted by the Council. However, we will investigate whether any changes can be made to the chicane arrangements.

    So the council are aware of these, not sure when we can expect action though...

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    Dave might cut it back for the owner? He is guerrilla gardener par excellence, stylish shears action on towpath etc

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. Greenroofer
    Member

    Maybe was it Dave that cut down the overhanging rose by Bridge 5 on the towpath? IWRATS said he might. A day or two later I tweeted Scottish Canals about it, and the following day it was gone. They never replied to say that it was one of their people that did it...

    Green Roofer ‏@Green_Roofer May 2
    @scottishcanals pls cut back big overhanging rose on Union Canal towpath 100m W of Bridge 5 (Kingsknowe). Spiky hazard blocking path. Thx!

    Scottish Canals ‏@scottishcanals May 2
    @Green_Roofer Will get a team out to have a look - and thanks for the detailed location!

    Green Roofer ‏@Green_Roofer May 6
    @scottishcanals Rose on Union Canal by Bridge 5 now gone. Thanks for getting your team to look at it (assuming it was them!)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. cb
    Member

    Drifting slightly, but I only noticed these odd railings on Craiglockhart Avenue the other day.

    What are they for? The best reason I can think of is to stop cars from squeezing down on the pavement if something large were in the right hand lane. But then why not just bollards.

    Not been there that long according to the historical view on Street View (cool feature, haven't seen that before).

    (Also took me a while to work out in the new Street View that you just need to post the URL in the address bar; there is no create link feature)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. tk
    Member

    The big issue with chicanes that I see is they are often used as traps for cyclists as they funnel them through a small space. This allows glass and other obstacles to be left. On the Portobello side if the innocent path there was glass this morning near Duddingston and glass on the Hope Lane bridge (which hasn't been removed since reporting it last week). The less tight chicane on the other is also sporting a large pothole as they don't take into account the extra traffic on a small area

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    "The Council have installed large chicaine gates at the east end of the path, at the foot of Barton Ave."

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12169&page=5#post-152638

    Things can only get better (but I don't know when!)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    "Things are made a bit tricky by the non-compliant paving tramlines that have been put down a few feet beforehand. Why has the message on that still not gone out?"

    http://www.citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12169&page=5#post-152660

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    BOLLARDS!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. wingpig
    Member

    Careful what you wish for. Crummock might install elbow-bollards like on the canal at Gilmore Place and across the river at Roseburn Park.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. Favourite (now-wasted) bollards are here at Coalhill, just before Sandport Bridge as you turn off the Shore.

    The dropped kerb was put in when the Shore was 'improved' 2 years ago, followed by it being removed and replaced by a full-height kerb weeks later. Investigations by Cllr Chas Booth found that the council made the decision 'because cars were using it to park on the pavement'. So, rather than deal with the inconsiderate parkers, they decided that they should inconvenience cyclists instead. Ironically, they left the bollards in place which were there to let bikes and peds through but not cars.

    The street is also supposed to be bollarded at the other end as it should be peds and cyclists only. The bollards were ripped out and thrown in the WoL and the street became a big car-park again. Requests to the council to replace the bollards have fallen on deaf ears, as have requests to reinstate the dropped kerb. Chas has confirmed that the regs for that road have not been changed and it's still down as being closed off to vehicles (which it clearly isn't).

    CEC - sometimes you just couldn't make up how bad their decisions (and inability to listen) are!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. kaputnik
    Member

    Just cycled through what I would say are "good" chicanes, (Edinburgh Park installed, not CEC). Seeing they are in the middle of nowhere on nearly unused bits of path, they're a bit pointless, but actually they are probably a good comprimised in terms of both barrier design and implimentation.

    See here (there's a further set along a bit).

    I assume that the chicane is to stop people driving around the car barriers (the issue of passes for which are probably another "statutory repair" scandle just waiting to be uncovered)

    Posted 3 years ago #

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