We do have quite a few mapped in OpenStreetMap - https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/BjN
(although probably setting the access tag based on the barriers probably needs to be done properly.)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
CEC and chicanes
(230 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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"the member of staff who was going to do so has moved on and hasn't been replaced yet."
How often have we heard that in relation to active travel? Council needs to realise that is not an valid explanation or even an excuse, it's an admission of abject failure.
Posted 6 years ago # -
How often have we heard that in relation to active travel?
Too often, although in this case I understand that they offered someone the job and that person turned it down, so they're having to re-recruit.
@chrisfl - I never figured out for sure if the access tag on barriers should be based on whether cyclists are allowed to go through, or on whether cyclists are able to go through. Do you know?
Posted 6 years ago # -
https://edinburgh.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/293937/start_time/1574000
Worth a quick watch.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Checked the Niddrie Marishacl Terrace one this afternoon.
Not CbD compliant (separation ~1.5m and you meet the right hand barrier first), but actually not terrible to cycle through, as each of the barriers takes up less than half the path width, so you can go through diagonally (on a normal bike, anyway).
Posted 6 years ago # -
Some interesting comments to my request for views about chicanes on slopes
https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1034098697200705541?s=19
https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1034190437039448065?s=19
Posted 6 years ago # -
I failed to cycle through that chicane without stopping on Sunday. With the slope, it took three or four attempts to get going again.
Posted 6 years ago # -
https://twitter.com/CWAMusselburgh/status/1034542584998318080?s=19
"Also proving pain for our Trishaws. One on NCN1 at Monktonhall Place,Muss is impassable and the two on the footbridge over Esk on NCN 76 (part of our key routes) are very tricky. Been working with EL council but nothing happened as yet."
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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Who owns the barriers on the canal? Local authorities or Scottish Canals?
Met a family cycling along the canal the other day who had a child in a trailer. They reached this barrier and had to curtail their trip.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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http://www.mummysgoneacycle.com/babboe-city-e-review/
"I was used to riding a long bike after almost three years with a bakfiets. However, the Babboe made the bakfiets look small! The size of it does not really make much difference in handling it, but it does make a difference to the routes I can use. Sadly, cycling infrastructure in the UK does not always take ‘non standard’ bikes into account. There are routes near me which I cannot use with the Babboe as it will not fit through. These routes usually involve chicanes. This has not caused me too many problems as I can always find a way around, but it is worth considering if you are thinking about a cargo bike."
Posted 6 years ago # -
Met a family cycling along the canal the other day who had a child in a trailer. They reached this barrier and had to curtail their trip.
Apparently the family got in touch with Scottish Canals (as did I), and SC will now be working together with a disabilities group to review the barriers along the canal.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I misunderstood - they're planning on adding padlocked gates to the barriers, and devising some method of getting keys to disabled visitors.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“devising some method of getting keys to disabled visitors”
That’ll work...
Is this about ‘there might be motorbikes’??
Posted 6 years ago # -
Bingo.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I wouldn't hold your breath for any action by Scottish Canals.
I complained about the barriers on the canal towpaths restricting access for disabled handcyclists back in 2005. Following this I was invited to an "Access Group" meeting where the problem of the barriers was noted but no actions were taken to remove them.
I've given up on using towpaths as I can't guarantee I can get through any barriers.The idea of keys for disabled visitors is a non-starter, even Sustrans don't suggest this as a reasonable way of avoiding barriers. The only solution is to remove the (probably illegal) barriers and, through increased legitimate use, drive any illegal users elsewhere.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“SC will now be working together with a disabilities group to review the barriers along the canal.”
Which one?
“I wouldn't hold your breath for any action by Scottish Canals.”
Think that’s probably true.
BUT surely there are rules/regulations/laws that LAs/SC/Sustrans etc have to comply with on access?
Or is it the case that ‘minimum standards’ aren’t suitable for all legitimate users?
Posted 6 years ago # -
chdot - well, there's "the law" (Equality Act 2010) which outlaws discrimination on a list of protected characteristics and places an equality duty on public bodies. This doesn't set out any design requirements. These are set out in a raft of guidance, which attempts to set out how to meet the requirements of this law (Cycling by Design etc). Then there is what gets built, which is often barely designed to meet minimum standards and is subject to changes as it is built - which means that what we get is often well below the already meagre minimum standards.
Thing is - there is no enforcement body. Want to challenge what has been built? You have to do it yourself. Look at the saga of the South Queensferry chicanes - and this was only successful as the developer was still on site and unusually receptive to calls for change. They could have ignored it all, then what? Take the developer to court? Who would do that? Who would do that thousands of times to remove all the ridiculous chicanes, bollards, gates etc. that litter our paths?
Developers and councils install poor infrastructure because they can, because they think it is the right thing to do, because it's the way it has always been done, because it is cheap and because no-one important really cares.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Thanks.
“This doesn't set out any design requirements”
BUT
“Equality Act 2010 which outlaws discrimination on a list of protected characteristics and places an equality duty on public bodies”
“and because no-one important really cares”
Time for a campaign.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Fair play to @Edintravel for retweeting my question of whether the Craigleith View chicane is still in place. It has brought out some interesting responses <sigh>
Anyone know?
https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1047753181059534848?s=19
Posted 6 years ago # -
Stand down. They have gone :-)
https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/1047878181854871552?s=19
Posted 6 years ago # -
The chicanes on the Forth/Clyde canals specifically mentioned in Sustrans' NCN review - Scotland Action Plan:
"PROBLEM
Still contains a large number of historical
access barriers which are restrictive to all user groups.SOLUTION
Work with partners to remove or redesign
barriers to ensure full compliance with access legislation."Posted 6 years ago # -
Just backread and saw to last month's "keys" conversation. That.... that is an interesting (totally bonkers) interpretation of "access" indeed.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Meanwhile, at southernmost Roseburn Path entrance / exit from Wester Coates Terrace...
The needs of all users have been considered and the positioning of construction accommodation has been carefully--- oh, no, wait.
Posted 6 years ago # -
To be fair, that access is so steep and tricky that it's almost always better* to use the path opposite Wester Coates Avenue. No excuse for blocking it so thoroughly, though.
* hard won knowledge when your choice of bike is compatible only with about two-thirds of the supplied bike infrastructure.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@unhurt - that's actually been placed there specifically to act as a 100% speed reduction measure for those with malfunctioning brakes.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Arellcat as much as two thirds?
@ARobComp this sounds plausible to me.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@unhurt, probably, if you include sheer bloodymindedness.
Posted 6 years ago # -
A property I approve of.
Posted 6 years ago #
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