We do cycle on the left, don't we? « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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We do cycle on the left, don't we?

(26 posts)

Started 10 years ago by calmac
Latest reply from Dave

Tags:

left broomhouse sorry saughton

calmac
Member

Thought I'd just check this one out.

Quite a few times lately when I've been headed eastward on the Broomhouse Path between Saughton and Edinburgh Park I've encountered cyclists coming the other way who appear uncertain what side to pass on. I cycle on the left of the cycle lane, and drift leftwards into the pedestrian side to pass bikes coming the other way. But a few times, as soon as they've seen me, other cyclists have shifted to pass on MY left.

I had two in a row recently and the second came closer to a crash than I'd like.

The first wobbled with a bit of uncertainty - like you might do walking in a narrow corridor towards someone. I moved very firmly to the left of the pedestrian bit, almost touching the grass, and carried on.

Then, a guy coming round the corner eastbound from under the tram bridge at South Gyle Access sees me, panics, and moves to pass on my left. I automatically moved left but he was still out there. He ended up coming to a full halt and I hate to say it but I got a bit stroppy and shouted "left!" at him as I passed.

He was clearly an experienced cyclist so I was a bit bewildered. So my question is, am I doing something wrong? Is there not an expectation that bikes will always pass in the same way as cars when we're on paths? Should I not be cycling in the cycle path when headed west but be in the pedestrain side and only come out of that to pass pedestrians?

And if you're the guy I shouted at, I'm very sorry, you were unlucky enough to be the second person making that mistake within 15 seconds and I'd had a hard day.

Posted 10 years ago #
DaveC
Member

"Is there not an expectation that bikes will always pass in the same way as cars when we're on paths?"

There is and I do, and I also shout left and gesture to eejits who persist to cycle down their right as I'm hugging the grass/left-edge of path. I've also pointed to them and the moved my poniting to my right and shouted 'LEFT!' at some silly cyclists. They usually shudder to a halt and look surprised when I shout left to them. Keep shouteding LEFT, they'll eventually get it! :D

I can only assume its those 'continental' types, who just panic and veer to their right.

I was letting a collegue drive my car around 10 years ago up near Braemar, on a very quiet country road. He had a Rissian drivers licience and could drive but as soon as we came up against an oncoming car, he veered right before I grabbed the steering wheel and pulled us back left. He took a UK driving test after that.

Posted 10 years ago #
Uberuce
Member

I'm afraid I will argue that yes: planning your immediate actions assuming there's a convention is doing something wrong. You make an ass out of u and ming there's a convention.

By more than convention, pedestrians are expected to use the road side of the split and cyclists obliged the tram side. Intentional observance of that is so close to zero that I've long since found it's best, when interacting with peds, to pretend it doesn't exist and just do what I'd do on the unsegrated likes of the NEPN or canal.

As a knockon, the side you find yourself as anyone's guess.

My example is based on a chap I had a not-very-near-miss with months ago. Long before we needed to drift out out of 'plonked in middle' position, I scooted over to the extreme right edge, on the assumption that he'd take that as a signal of my intent to yield the rest of the path to him. He scooted directly into my path and we ended up playing that really rubbish game of chicken you get when it's two risk-averse middle aged men - ie it ended far before it would with younger and pluckier riders.

I put that down to inflexible thinking centred around a convention.

Posted 10 years ago #
stiltskin
Member

Interestingly enough, the new give way markings at Craigleith are only painted on the left hand side of the path, so it is obviously an officially sanctioned piece of etiquette.

Posted 10 years ago #
calmac
Member

Uberuce, I've long accepted that pedestrians pay no attention whatsoever to the big white line painted down the middle of the path, the white people and bikes painted on the paths accordingly and the regular bollards. I try to pass them in the cycle lane where possible but other than that it's just about giving them room.

Though if they did the same somewhere like Brussels, they'd be killed.

What I'm talking about is when bikes are passing bikes. I can't think of any reason at all for not moving to the left. Anything else can only cause confusion, and we're moving fast enough that there's a real danger of someone getting hurt. That would apply on the canal, on shared use paths, anywhere.

Is that really not standard practice?

Posted 10 years ago #
Instography
Member

Such a convention seems to have emerged on the NEPN. Cyclists seem to always be on the left. Pedestrians walk to their left edge and even seem to move to that side if a spread out group makes space. Only dogs seem unaware of the custom. I think it's norm established by everyone observing what everyone else is doing.

If the path calmac is using has only light traffic all the visual signals from other traffic have gone. It takes conscious effort to ride to a particular side in those circumstances. It's like the Spanish coach driver who pulled out of a car park onto a quiet country road. Without clues from other traffic to remind him where he was, he took his usual side of the road. Sadly, a British couple in a car were already in that lane.

Posted 10 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

@calmac I would normally say left is convention, however in bad corners such as that one at South Gyle i.e. completely blind, with obstacles (bollard / rumblestrips) just round the bend I find myself going round it on the outside, which is the "wrong" side if heading back to town. So convention has gone out the window and the only safe logic seems to be "expect cyclists and pedestriand and unleashed dogs on all sides going in all directions".

Posted 10 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

I have once or twice realised that I was on the 'wrong side' on a path and apologised to bemused cyclist. like davec's friend, a one way or narrow road can pull up lessons learned as a child - even after 20 years.

ut, have more often found myself the 'victim' of situations described above. if cycling with a child, i usually try to teach indirectly 'keep left now K. you remember, cyclists always cycle on the LEFT' (loudly, with carrying voice)...

Posted 10 years ago #
Instography
Member

@kappers
True. At the Wester Coates connection to the path, when heading towards Haymarket, I switch to the right to be as far away as possible from people coming onto the path.

Posted 10 years ago #
wingpig
Member

I have heard a non-cyclist assume that cyclists on cycle paths would prefer that pedestrians were on the right, as pedestrians are recommended to do when walking alongside a footwayless motor-compatible road.

Posted 10 years ago #
neddie
Member

Everything drives on the left, except boats and planes.

If flying by visual flight rules, you should be to the right of feature like a road to avoid another plane who may be flying along the road in the opposite direction.

Planes use roads as useful navigation aid. For fun you can fly low enough to see the road signs (joking)

Posted 10 years ago #
Nelly
Member

"I would normally say left is convention, however in bad corners such as that one at South Gyle ..........unleashed dogs on all sides going in all directions".

Yip ditto to all of that, I will be honest and say that I have had abuse from walkers for being 'on the wrong side' on that path, but personally as I cycle it daily I dont really bother - I just take teh line that is most dog poo/glass/pedestrian free.

None of this is a problem midwinter, as the only people on it are Kaputnik, Uberuce and Me !!

However come the lighter months, it is busier and I just use the rule of being polite, moving over as appropriate and - as Kaputnik says - protecting yourself when there is an obvious danger.

Being honest I just assumed everyone rode like that when 'off road' - i.e. who cares where the line is, just go with the flow, man?

Posted 10 years ago #
acsimpson
Member

I normally stick left if there's oncoming traffic, otherwise depending on path width I'll often be in the middle.

The oddest occurrence I've had was when I was ridden into. Noticing another rider coming towards me I was already on the left as it was the outside of a bend, my initial thought was that the other rider would move over but as I got closer it became apparent they weren't going to. My initial reaction was to slow down but they still didn't react so I moved over, although they then reacted and did likewise riding straight into the side of my front wheel. Fortunately I was going slowly enough that the only harm done to either of us was bruised egos and a sore leg. Apparently he was dazzled by the sun and couldn't see the path but as soon as he saw me his reaction was to pull left. What I'll never know though is whether he would have blindly ridden into me had I stopped on the left of the path.

I'm not sure what lessons I took from the incident other than if in doubt slow down, don't assume the person riding towards you has seen you and if someone hasn't reacted to your presence don't assume they won't.

Posted 10 years ago #
bruce_mcadam
Member

I always thought the confusion was due to Highway Code Rule 2, even though that only works when being on the right gives you a better view of oncoming traffic and you are expecting to dive into the undergrowth in deference to our motoring overlords (so doesn't help on places like the Innocent Railway, and doesn't apply to cyclists at all).

Posted 10 years ago #
calmac
Member

Nelly, I'll move around to avoid puddles and stuff, and on rough ground I'll just take the firmest, driest line. But if it makes no difference I'll be on the left.

More to the point of my wonderingmentisms, when passing a cyclist I'll always do so on the left.

As for that bad bend at South Gyle Access, I take it wide coming east so that I can see further but I'll shift in if someone's coming the other way. I just assumed everyone did the same.

Posted 10 years ago #
jdanielp
Member

Most cyclists stick to the left of the canal tow path from my experience, but the various aquaducts, bridges, speed reducing measures and positioning of pedestrians can lead to me, and others, staying to the right of the tow path briefly to complete occasional passes without making things even more confusing than they have to be.

Posted 10 years ago #
DaveC
Member

SRD said "if cycling with a child, I usually try to teach indirectly 'keep left now K. you remember, cyclists always cycle on the LEFT' (loudly, with carrying voice)..."

Funny as I find myself doing the same thing. "Keep Left Camie, Yes the chap coming towards us IS ON THE WRONG SIDE, Just Keep Left, They'll MOVE!!"

:D

Posted 10 years ago #
Cyclingmollie
Member

Uberuce: "You make an ass out of u and ming there's a convention."

That's so much funnier than the usual way of saying it.

Posted 10 years ago #
Charterhall
Member

I cycle the Edinburgh Park path and the canal paths on my commute and am entirely unaware of any convention. Like kaputnik says, expect anything.

Posted 10 years ago #
Focus
Member

@ wingpig

"I have heard a non-cyclist assume that cyclists on cycle paths would prefer that pedestrians were on the right, as pedestrians are recommended to do when walking alongside a footwayless motor-compatible road. "

And I've said it on here too. That way, both parties closest to each other can see one another and the ped can see the cyclist(hopefully) go round them and the cyclist is less likely to have a ped suddenly change direction right in front of them.

I've had the odd occasion of cyclists coming straight towards me on the wrong side of paths too. Usually I'll play chicken whilst pointing for them to change lanes but sometimes I've had to be the one to move if they are too stupid to get the message.

Posted 10 years ago #
wingpig
Member

Hmmmnmn. That way, when a pedestrian walking in the same direction as you on the other side of the path sees a cyclist coming towards them on their side of the path, they move across to your side of the path? I prefer it if everyone sticks to the same side, then it's quite rightly the job of the faster-moving coming-up-behind entity to be mindful of the entity which can't see them and probably can't hear them.

***

Relatedly, how steep does an uphill slope need to be before uphill-gets-priority kicks in? Is that why people going drops-clutchingly fast south along the Roseburn path often seem to think that someone heading north on the west side of the path should cede to them when they steam unslowingly past a pedestrian/slower cyclist heading south on the eastern path-side?

Posted 10 years ago #
jdanielp
Member

Hmm, I maybe spoke too soon given that a cyclist collided with me just after I joined the canal from Hermiston House Road this evening. She was cycling behind her partner who I was focussing on and smiled to initially, only to then notice that she had drifted over to my side of the path... Realising that a collision was imminent, I let out an involuntary shout as I slammed on my brakes and veered as far to the left as I could without heading down the bank into a tree. She reacted a little too late and caught my handlebar. I ended up keeling over with a bloody knuckle but she came off her bike properly, despite the fact that this had been a fairly low speed crash. She subsequently admitted to me that she wasn't looking and took the blame. She seemed ok but her bike definitely sustained a puncture. Her partner quickly turned round and headed back, asking if I was ok before saying that I should just keep going when I said I was and then attending to her.

Posted 10 years ago #
Focus
Member

Me: "And I've said it on here too. That way, both parties closest to each other can see one another and the ped can see the cyclist(hopefully) go round them and the cyclist is less likely to have a ped suddenly change direction right in front of them."

@ wingpig

"Hmmmnmn. That way, when a pedestrian walking in the same direction as you on the other side of the path sees a cyclist coming towards them on their side of the path, they move across to your side of the path?"

Not at all. The ped & vehicle (in this case, bike) should react the same as if they were sharing a road - the ped should stay where they are and the bike should make its way around the ped. You wouldn't expect a ped to cross to the other side of the road if a car was approaching them. If Highway Code rule 2 were applied correctly, it would be just the same as when sharing a road with peds.

Posted 10 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"
The second incident happened recently at Union Canal. There were a lot of people around so I had to cycle down the right to get by. A cyclist came along in the opposite direction, I was stuck on the right because of pedestrians in my path. This cyclist, clearly outraged that I wasn't on the left refused to cede his position and almost forced me into the canal. With my Spiderman-like reactions, I evaded the canal and got around him. He, however, was forced to brake suddenly and yelled out, "You're on the wrong side".

"

http://buttonsandrobin.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/bike-cycling-rage.html

Posted 10 years ago #
wingpig
Member

Peds on the right on a non-motor-vehicle path are perhaps more likely to be paying attention to what's in front of them (as opposed to peds on the left paying no attention to either direction), also perhaps more likely to yield to oncoming things?

Posted 10 years ago #
Dave
Member

I run on the NEPN (lunchtimes or epic commutes) and always on the right, as it says in the Highway Code about facing traffic.

From a cyclist's perspective I prefer people to walk on the left so they won't see me, and therefore react unpredictably. The ones who are walking on the right (and correct) side have a tendency to step out without checking for riders behind them :(

Posted 10 years ago #

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We do cycle on the left, don't we?

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