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Using a so-called rat run to bypass gridlock on bigger roads is more likely to make a commute longer.
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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Edinburgh is UK’s third most congested city"
(26 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Solutions for discussion at council transport committee:
- more barrier obstructions needed on cycle lanes to impede the progress of tailback-causing cyclists
- More bays parking needed on cycle lanes
- Rumble strips, more of
- encourage drivers into town by expanding car parks at new "retail destination" developments
- More perfectly good cycle paths to be dug up for tramways and put back in a far less convenient manner full of doglegs, dismounts, obstructions and bollards
- Bollards, more ofPosted 9 years ago # -
"average journeys in 2013 taking 27 per cent longer than they would in free-flowing traffic"
That doesn't sound too bad actually, but I see from the actual TomTom report that in Edinburgh the morning peak increase is 60% (which still doesn't sound that bad).
Posted 9 years ago # -
6 is the magic number.
It's the number of comments I had to read before I found one that blamed cycling...
(And another 2 comments before I hit this gem: "The frequency of lights allowing pedestrians to cross should be cut in half. This would relieve much of the congestion." - bloody walkers, expecting to be able to cross the road...)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Really? I know we are congested, but 3rd most congested in the UK - really?
Hmmmm, Off the top of my head these are worse in my experience - London, Birmingham, Manchester, Leicester, Nottingham, Bristol, Liverpool - thats without even trying or considering smallish places like Aberdeen which has a nightmare rush hour (which of course will be entirely sorted by building the horrific new bypass).
Or perhaps Tom Tom just sees this as an advertorial opportunity which good old Johnstone Press is happy to regurgitate?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I went and downloaded the actual report and couldn't find any mention of Edinburgh :(
Posted 9 years ago # -
If Edinburgh is the third most congested city in the UK then I don't see why congestion is even on the political radar.
From my commute (on foot) I've noticed the likes of Broughton Street, Leith Walk and York Place get congested (my definition - a queue formed that might take two cycles of the lights to get through) for all of about 20 minutes per rush hour. And if you don't like that you can get a bus or tram, or walk or cycle. Pathetic, really.
Posted 9 years ago # -
If Edinburgh is the third most congested city in the UK then I don't see why congestion is even on the political radar.
It ought to be on the radar because of air quality and pollution issues, rather than travel delays.
My experience is that main roads are pretty darn busy during the day, then fairly quiet after 7pm. London Road, Easter Road pretty much chocka until evening.
Posted 9 years ago # -
From what I can see TomTom assign a percentage score to a city which is the average extra time it takes to travel a particular route during peak periods.
They then rank all the percentage scores in a table. Edinburgh came third. The only useful comparison is to compare Edinburgh with its own score from previous surveys.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Edinburgh came third.
Aye, but according to their survey, Edinburgh is as congested at London (outwith peak travel time).
Posted 9 years ago # -
'Rush hour' in Edinburgh is pretty short compared to some cities. When I worked in London the roads were most mental for about 3 hours in the morning and then about 3 hours in the evening. People would actively stay at work an extra couple of hours to avoid the peak, which is not a behaviour I observe much in Edinburgh (drivers going over the bridge being an exception).
Non-surprise of the week - EEN stunt where a cyclist beat a tram from the airport to St Andrew Square by over ten minutes. They should've added a car driver to the mix - after 40 minutes they'd still be in the queue trying to get their parking ticket validated at the airport.
Posted 9 years ago # -
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Non-surprise of the week - EEN stunt where a cyclist beat a tram from the airport to St Andrew Square by over ten minutes. They should've added a car driver to the mix - after 40 minutes they'd still be in the queue trying to get their parking ticket validated at the airport.
"True , cycling is marginally quicker in / out of town than a car. I remember my drivist days, and mostly you are out of town in 25 or 30 mins from the centre, not very long at all really, I was in Livingston in 45 minutes, or Burntisland now in about an 1hr10 minutes. Pretty comparable to train times really. Congestion not really a huge issue here, unless of course there has been an incident, then all bets are off.
Of course numbers of cars, and pollution are issues, but I wouldn't go about trying to solve them blaming congestion. Simply state your aim to reduce car numbers and enforce it by your chosen method.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Aye, but according to their survey, Edinburgh is as congested at London"
I don't think they are saying that. All they are saying is that in London traffic is 34% slower during busy times and in Edinburgh traffic is 34% slower during busy times.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Aye, but 34% slower than what? "Free-flowing traffic" apparently. Ergo, Edinburgh is as congested as London outwith peak times.
"London traffic is 34% slower during busy times and in Edinburgh traffic is 34% slower during busy times."
Nope. During peak times, TomTom says: "Second is London with journey times 34% slower, rising to 63% in the evening peak. Close behind is the Scottish capital Edinburgh, where travelling during the morning rush hour takes 60% longer than usual."
Their off-peak congestion benchmark is "normal" conditions defined as "free-flowing" and based on an average 30 minute journey.
Furthermore, here are their "Top Ten" most congested UK cities:
The UK’s most congested cities, ranked by overall Congestion Level (my bold), for the calendar year 2013 compared with 2012:
Rank City Congestion 2013 Congestion 2012
1 Belfast 36% 35%
2 London 34% 32%
3 Edinburgh 34% 34%
4 Bristol 32% 33%
5 Brighton 31% 30%
6 Manchester 26% 26%
7 Leeds-Bradford 26% 29%
8 Sheffield 26% 22%
9 Liverpool 25% 25%
10 Nottingham 25% 23%
Posted 9 years ago # -
Yeah, but their "overall congestion level" is just a comparison of between two traffic levels in the same city. There can't really be any meaningful comparison between two different places.
Auchtermuchty could have come top of the list because it takes a minute to drive down the high street during "rush hour" instead of 30 seconds.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@cb, but the time actually taken to complete any given journey is not relevant here. That will vary enormously depending upon road layouts, speed limits, junctions, etc. What is important is the difference 'twixt "free-flowing" traffic (presumably optimum motoring conditions for urban driving) and congested traffic, whether severe peak congestion or humdrum daytime congestion (assuming that in the middle of the night there is no congestion).
So, acording to TomTom, Edinburgh is, on average, just as congested as London but the peak congestion is 3% less severe. So a nominal 30 min journey in "normal" non-congested conditions in Edinburgh or in London will take on average 40 mins in average congestion, but during peak time the London journey will take 49 mins versus Edinburgh's 48 mins.
Posted 9 years ago # -
cb: agreed. Something like a comparison of average speed at peak/off-peak times would allow ranking of towns.Edit: Second thoughts on the above comment.......
(And when did Leeds and Bradford merge?)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Auchtermuchty could have come top of the list because it takes a minute to drive down the high street during "rush hour" instead of 30 seconds.
No, because it would need to be a 30 minute baseline journey, which in this case might pass through Auchtermuchty briefly en route, or start/finish in the 'muchty. Unless the nominal journey was just driving up and down the High Street repeatedly for 30 minutes...
Posted 9 years ago # -
"No, because it would need to be a 30 minute baseline journey"
I haven't actually read beyond the press release, but there is nothing about a 30 minute baseline so apart from the fact that Auchtermuchty isn't a city I don't see why it couldn't be "compared" to London or Edinbugh.
Posted 9 years ago # -
there is nothing about a 30 minute baseline
Read the TomTom summary report/press release again. Down at the foot of the page:
" This is calculated by measuring the number of hours lost in traffic congestion across the UK to calculate the total average delay per year in morning and evening peak hours. This is done assuming a typical 30 minute commute trip each way, for an entire year. "
So in fact it's talking about an hour round trip.
Posted 9 years ago # -
That's only used to come up with the headline grabbing "And British commuters are now spending 10 working days a year stuck in traffic".
(Note what the asterisk applies to).Nothing to say it is used to produce their congestion percentages. In fact I would expect that they would use very short segments of road journeys to get the congestion score. You'd get far more data that way.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Well now we're in the realm of conjecture. I'm going by the publicly available explanation of their methods. They may well have sampled tracking data from their satnav apps for 30 or 60 minute journeys: it would make more sense than very short segments AFAICS.
Unless we can get a link to the full report, the PR release is all we have to go on.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I've just been playing with the Tom Tom routefinder. (http://routes.tomtom.com/ which I like because it generally does a really good job of taking into account normal traffic levels which I presume is the same data they used for their report.
Tried a few routes to Edinburgh Park,
From Polwarth: 3am 16 minutes 08:30 19 minutes (+18%)
From Musselburgh (around bypass): 3am 24 minutes 08:00 32 minutes (+33%)
From Duddingstone across town: 3am 24 minutes, at 08:00 32 minutes (+33%)Anyway, time for the ride home :)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Plenty of congestion in town this morning, between 10am and 11am. Even in Holyrood Park (the bit between Parly and Scotsman building).
This may/may not be "normal": I suspect it has something to do with the rain. Car drivers are so attached to their vehicles they even confuse them with umbrellas.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I checked my own 'mute.
It suggests Marchmont - South Gyle (5.7mi) = 23 min workbound vs. 24 min homebound at peak time and 18 min workbound vs. 19 min homebound off peak.
That's a 26% difference.
I think that the off peak estimate might be about right for timing, but I think the peak time one is rather optimistic, especially given the route it chooses at the city centre end.
My own cycling distance is more like 6.3 miles and the time is 22 mins with a tailwind and catching the lights just right, usually about 25 mins and on a slow day with wind and traffic lights 28 mins-ish.
Posted 9 years ago # -
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I think that the off peak estimate might be about right for timing, but I think the peak time one is rather optimistic, especially given the route it chooses at the city centre end.
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That timing would tie in with what it used to take me at peak times in a car going to/ from Uni area, and entering/exiting at Sighthill, or Gyle,When I was on bike I used to 'race' a colleague to the pedestrian bridge at Ratho Park, we were probably evens on 'wins'
Posted 9 years ago #
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