CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
"Why do we build cycle lanes and cycle routes? Is it safety? Is it 'improving the public realm'? Or is it (supposed to be) about getting people out of cars, by providing a high quality and efficient alternative? "
Good - and unfortunately all too relevant - questions.
"Filling a cycle lane with miscellaneous infrastructure, and to boot not linking it to anything, removes every shred of efficiency and reduces it from bikes=transport to bikes=pootley fun, and not necessarily that much fun."
Yep.
"But this is standard route planning. Forget the big three streets. Use Lochrin, the Meadows, the High St, the Pleasance; divert through Ravelston, the NEPN, Craigleith; Abbeyhill and Abbey Mount: in essence, trading spot safety for flow."
Indeed, when I'm with my son returning from Lyceum theatre I prefer to use Johnston Terrace, High Street, North Bridge, Waterloo Place, Regent Road rather than brave Lothian Road, then Princes Street eastbound or Charlotte Square then George Street. Princes Street westbound is tolerable outwith peak traffic flow: I avoid at all costs at peak times.
My son's only complaint about the wide, relatively quiet bus lane on Johnston Terrace is that it is uphill. Otherwise it's okay. Mini roundabout at the top needs great care though, as maniacal taxi drivers cut across on the wrong side all the time!
Hope this explains my position a little. unlike Crowriver I don't have audax thighs of steel and prefer straight/flat roads where possible.
http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/a-rather-boring-slightly-ranty-post.html
"audax thighs of steel"? Ha! I beg to differ! Haven't ridden an addax since May, so the thighs are less "steel" than they might have been, if they ever were.
Johnston Terrace isn't really that steep: more of a gradual climb. My son can manage it, but does protest a bit: fair enough!
couple of comments on the blog, if folk are interested.
in response to chdot's point about George street not being a 'serious through route' or 'alternative to princes street' the problem is that it is supposedly on the NCN and likely part of the east-west corridor. so I think we should expect better.
Silver Ford Focus drove a block of George Street ahead of me this morning in the cycling lane. Not sure if they were lost or chancing a shortcut. Too far ahead of me to resolve the number plate with the rain on my glasses.
"audax thighs of steel"
Audax thighs of Chromoly then?
"audax thighs of steel"
"Audax thighs of Chromoly then?"
My problem is more lungs made out of polysterene
"the problem is that it is supposedly on the NCN ... so I think we should expect better"
A problem is that there are no consistent standards for the NCN.
Also - as far as I am aware - no 'understanding' (even in urban areas) that such routes 'should' be considered (at least partly) as 'commuting routes'.
Of course just saying that, I am assuming/accepting that there should be provision for 'cycling vehiclists'.
From what I recall, the standard for the on-road NCN is that routes should be usable by accompanied novices and cyclists of all ages, or an unaccompanied competent 12-year-old. What there doesn't seem to be is a British Standard 12-year-old for use in benchmarking this.
"My problem is more lungs made out of polysterene"
Asthma? I fnd cycling actually helps my asthma, but I can't go really fast. Different triggers for different folk though, I suppose. Cycling and exertion related asthma don't go particularly well together.
"a British Standard 12-year-old"
I'm sure some statisticians could supply some averages to help make a model of one. I'm guessing though that the average 12-year-old in the UK doesn't cycle any more.
"Asthma?"
that has been diagnosis until now, but current thinking seems to be possible bronchiecstasis. CT scan results next week should clarify.
@SRD, that's like the opposite of asthma then. Doesn't sound great fun, I hope they can treat it effectively.
Do 'we' really want to discourage the council so much that they go back to invisible red chip advisory lanes/parking in the door zone/gutter ?
They probably will now see 'the cyclists' as being an impossible to satisfy bunch of moaners. (Although somehow, motorists insatiable demand for bridges, motorways, dualling seems not to cause anyone to get fed up)
Noticed this.
Was using road on George St as seemed easier for short burst having come up from Dundas St. You can also see the toucan crossing here.
St Andrew Square - end of bike lane by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr
After going onto road and clockwise round St Andrew Square I went onto Princes St via tram route. Was told by a gentleman that I was on the tramway - which I simply agreed with. Maybe bad practice though and should walk my bike there in future?
"Maybe bad practice though and should walk my bike there in future?"
Depends how you define "should".
I presume it's illegal to cycle.
It may or may not also be illegal to walk/push along that bit of road(?)
Aargh. A sign saying "rejoin road". That's their solution?? Why are you asked to go from a cycle lane on to a pedestrian island in the first place, then ask you to rejoin the road? Why not just direct the path back on to the road? Jesus.
Why are you asked to go from a cycle lane on to a pedestrian island in the first place, then ask you to rejoin the road? Why not just direct the path back on to the road?
I presume this is related to the new Toucan crossing which extends across to the "island" garden in the midst of St Andrew Square. I got a bit confused by the Toucan momentarily, as I could see at the other end, the path into the garden has steps. So clearly cyclists are not intended users there.
I suppose we are meant to wait for the Toucan to show green, then scoot across St Andrew Square past the "loading" blinky flashing cars waiting for partners to return from Multrees boutiques. Then join the shared use down to Dublin Street (a bell is handy here). Or else circle round St Andrew Square and join eastern Princes Street (not really recommended).
Instead of going onto the island I scoot across the parking and rejoin the road at the lights on the traffic side of George St so that I can turn right on St Andrews Square and go down to Princes St to get to the station.
I'm trying to view George St in evolutionary terms. The road has just dragged itself out of the ooze. It has some rudimentary version of the principal characteristics of a cycle lane and with the right conditions might actually develop into a recognisable cycle lane but it's vulnerable and liable to be killed.
It has some rudimentary version of the principal characteristics of a cycle lane and with the right conditions might actually develop into a recognisable cycle lane but it's vulnerable and liable to be killed.<-like this analogy
Part of the problem with the scheme stem from its evolutionary nature. Swathes of tarmac are now "pedestrianised" but they still look like road (unattractive surface and subconscious "danger area") and there is little to attract people onto them, so they remain empty. In fact, the restaurant pavilions actually discourage peds from using it as they completely block it in places.
As a result, I'm not sure peds appreciate the extra space (especially outside Le Monde, where use of tables, chairs and sandwich boards on the pavement next to a pavilion mean that the ped-space is even more confined than it was before).
For my part, I'm making a point of strolling on the road to encourage others. To be fair, I've been doing the same on St Andrew Square and the vehicular side of George Street, but it's a lonely walk.
Public realm improvements would mean this would have a much greater impact - for instance, resurface *all* of the block in front of the Assembly Rooms to make it look like a public plaza that car driver are guests on rather than owners of - but I recognise that it's difficult to justify that when you've dressed the whole thing up as an experiment so as not to frighten the horses...
"dressed the whole thing up as an experiment so as not to frighten the horses..."
Part of the problem. The original report by Jan Gehl had very radical proposals (for Edinburgh): buses banished from Princes and George Streets; cars much more restricted than at present; two way segregated cycle lanes replacing parking, etc. I'm assuming coalition councillors could be heard making sharp intakes of breath at the prospect of angry drivers and bus users fulminating in the Evening Snooze.
Hence the "temporary" syealthy compromise which is marketed as pedestrianisation promoting "cafe culture" primarily with (whisper it) cyclists included too.
I'm going to this;
tomorrow. (And I commend it to anyone who, like me, appreciates a bit of highfalutin' Frenchified intellectual onanism in their lives) so I'll try to combine my trip into town with a first try of the new improved George Street. It's not a a street I ever worried about cycling on, so it will be interesting to see if they really have made it worse.
How do you get to the West entrance to this thing?
"highfalutin' Frenchified intellectual onanism"
Given the title contains 'non-finito', surely Italianised or Latinised?
"How do you get to the West entrance to this thing?"
The right-turn filter from the Princes Street direction on South Charlotte Street is still there, albeit half the width and occasionally used by oncoming southbound full-width motor vehicles who have become too used to it not occasionally having a full-width northbound motor vehicle in. The left-turn filter may be used by anyone coming up North Charlotte Street, either from Queen Street or after having been for a diverting clockwise trundle around Charlotte Square from the Randolph cut-through beside West Register House.
"Given the title contains 'non-finito', surely Italianised or Latinised?"
There are words used in that world that make my chips bristle. A circle in Hell lined with chartreuse corduroy should be reserved for anyone using these words in respect of a work of art;
1) Trope
2) Painterly
3) Scholarly
“Cyclists may not be happy, but a lot has been done to create the cycle lanes – what’s the equivalent for pedestrians? That’s where we need a bit of effort now.”
see, that's the problem. we're told they've 'done a lot for us' and we should be grateful. much like qbc...
that said, i think he is right - pedestrians do need a better environment here
You missed the good news.
"
THE new-look George Street is attracting an extra 20,000 pedestrians a week, with nine out of ten saying the revamp has made the area more attractive.
The partial pedestrianisation of the street and the bid to create a new “cafe quarter” for the Capital saw footfall for the last two months increase by 8.7 per cent on the same period last year. But city centre business leaders said more still needed to be done to make those on foot feel like the street was for them.
Average weekly footfall in George Street during September and October was up from 222,707 to 242,088.
"
As I was probably saying yesterday, it's trying to improve too many (potentially conflicting) things and CEC isn't really getting the message across properly/telling the truth.
I'm sure what they have done can be made (even) better for pedestrians and cyclists. But it probably needs less traffic/parking and an honest admission that it will never become any sort of 'cycle super highway' - at which point they would have to start thinking about doing something SERIOUS with a segregated cycle route along York P and Queen S...
Cyclists may not be happy, but a lot has been done to create the cycle lanes – what’s the equivalent for pedestrians?
It's a bit s**t. That's the equivalent.
Also (I clearly haven't been paying attention to the environs) -
Are the bike racks where they used to be?
Are there any new ones??
In regard to the 'Cyclists rejoin Road' sign above, its a much cheaper alternative to putting a dedicated cycle traffic light on the east end of George St. To rephase the lights to allow safe cyclists emergence as well as motor traffic and pedestrian access was obviously a pita. Instead they just lump cyclists with pedestrians.
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