CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

George Street Improvements

(1192 posts)

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "The much shorter section on the royal mile, ironically outside the council chambers has worked as pedestrian area."

    That'll be the bit with no parking and proper bollards.

    It was also planned as pedestrianisation with bikes allowed - effectively as guests. George Street was promoted as 'a cycle route with added benefits'.

    So 'we' are the experiment.

    "There seems to be a gradual warming to the george street route on here."

    That's possibly true for people looking past the problems and being glad there is much less traffic on George Street.

    Should 'we' be saying 'it's better than it was, so that's OK'?

    It's an experiment.

    Someone thought flimsy bollards would solve a problem they had hoped they wouldn't have - some people driving where they shouldn't.

    Seems it needs boring barriers (or planters on wheels) and people to move them for the 'deliveries window'. (Until the experiment is declared a success and serious bollards are installed.)

    At which point it might also be wise to remove the cycle lanes and say it's a pedestrian area with bikes as guests.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. PS
    Member

    At which point it might also be wise to remove the cycle lanes and say it's a pedestrian area with bikes as guests.

    I think this might work with proper paving to make it look like a pedestrian space, ideally with different surface (tarmac?) to demarcate cycle lane.

    It makes it a nicer place to wander, but there are inevitable conflicts between peds and cyclists - I was walking across the street towards the RGS building with a colleague and saw a cyclist coming fast across the Hanover Street junction towards us. He tinged his bell and shot past very close, probably at what seemed like a reasonable pace to him but at too fast a rate to us as peds. It produced a fair amount of directional swearing from my colleague, which I pacified to an extent with a "well, it is a bikelane". Both parties probably at fault to an extent, but I suspect what it does show is the need for a faster E-W segregated route.

    It's an experiment.

    We shouldn't forget this. And it will change - Council chap has said that he recognises that the crossing from north side to south side of the street doesn't work, for instance.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    "Radical road space reallocation in and around Princes Street and George Street should boost, rather than hinder trade and investment. I think you all know that though."

    http://www.citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13949#post-172582

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/drivers-destroy-george-street-bollards-1-3609510

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Interesting that Ms Hinds raises the possibility that the bollards have been knocked down on purpose.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. wingpig
    Member

    "A huge swathe of pedestrian space has been created..."

    I pedestrinated along it yesterlunch to see what it was like. Between the 800kg concrete lumps holding up dead lamp-posts, the new decking/tent bits and the open-air under-awning tables for carcinogenicists there are places where the footway is only two people wide.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. crowriver
    Member

    "Motorists claimed they had accidently turned into the ­traffic-free zone because they failed to notice road signs highlighting the new restrictions."

    Otherwise known as "just following the sat nav".

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "A huge swathe of pedestrian space has been created..."

    As I was saying yesterday, just remove the cycle lanes and call it all shared use (including the bits that still allow vehicles!)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Made the mistake of reading the comments....

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Interesting (in a schadenfreudey kind of way) that 'they' think that the lack of No Entry signs is a justifiable reason for carrying on driving in the cycle lanes, bollards or not, and indeed grounds to sue CEC. I'm a motor(cycl)ist, sometimes, and I've managed to not drive on the cycle lanes so far. Are 'they' just idiots or something?

    What is the process that CEC would have undertaken to make the cycle lane sections of George Street "not a carriageway for motor vehicles"? Is that a TRO? Does it require specific signage? Is it comparable with closing a lane because of roadworks?

    I have to go to Waverley in the next couple of days, and will be patronising the cycle lane as a matter of course.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. crowriver
    Member

    "Are 'they' just idiots or something?"

    Quite possibly.

    Or perhaps "otherwise law abiding motorists" who were "just following the sat nav".

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    Watching Portillo in Poland.

    Both Warsaw and Łódź seem to have significant central bits without vehicles.

    Poznań too.

    + Wrocław.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    I think Gembo is right that there's been a bit of a softening in dislike for the facility (and it genuinely is nice to avoid the traffic for a short while), but I'm still irked by the lack of connection at either end; the crossing button is still not plugged in and switched on and working; and at the Charlotte Square end the shift onto the cobbles is just asking for trouble.

    Oh, and the lack of fixing the bollards.

    The thing is, in other countries they don't actually need bollards (certainly in my time watching bike lanes in Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Paris, Lyon....), so just what [i]is[/]i it about the British motorist?

    I see plenty comments as well, still, about the city centre dying without cars and George Street being an arterial route. Sigh.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    And yes, most other European cities have huge areas of true pedestrianisation. Even the likes of Athens and Beirut that are just insane gatherings of people and busy-ness.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. PS
    Member

    The thing is, in other countries they don't actually need bollards (certainly in my time watching bike lanes in Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Paris, Lyon....), so just what [i]is[/]i it about the British motorist?

    The experimental and half-hearted approach hasn't helped with this - tarmac on the ground, cars parked and workmen's vans parked along the cyclelanes (just how often do they have to fix the bloody marquees/decking? They seem to be there almost every day) all along the street don't send out the clear message that this street is different to the others in the city centre. Proper paving would go some way to sorting that. Removing the parking would be a much more thorough solution.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. ianfieldhouse
    Member

    It's just standard behaviour for Edinburgh drivers to drive and park in the bike lanes, so why would George Street be any different? Just look at the QBC at Ratcliffe Terrace for how well respected a bike lane is.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. Morningsider
    Member

    Arellcat - the changes to George Street have full legal backing. The changes are all set out in experimental traffic regulation order. Experimental TROs are quick to obtain (minimal consultation requirements) and allow minor changes to be made to a scheme without the requirement to obtain a new order.

    There is no requirement for no-entry signage on segregated cycle tracks. The round blue sign with a white bike in it means the route is for bikes only and all other vehicles are prohibited (para 17.32, Chapter 3, Traffic Signs Manual).

    That said, there is a "No left turn, except cycles" sign in Charlotte Square on the approach to George Street (chdot posted a photo of it a few months ago). I imagine these are similar signs in St Andrew Square and other appropriate points.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. crowriver
    Member

    Yeah, it's not the signage, It's the "just following the sat nav".

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. neddie
    Member

    OK, OK, enough already! Please stop posting about the blinking sat nav

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. crowriver
    Member

    It's my shorthand for drivers who don't look where the heck they're going, then making excuses, i.e.. "I was just following the sat nav". It's like that other excuse, breaking the law while driving, but "otherwise law abiding".

    I'm going to keep repeating it, sorry!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-s-christmas-lights-switched-on-1-3613484

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. fimm
    Member

    Boyfriend and I were up there on Sunday (we didn't know about the lights being switched on, we went to Stockbridge market and then met up with a friend of mine). It was lovely - heaving with people, and no cars at all (not parked or anything). Just a few cyclists weaving through the crowds (they'd have had to walk in places where the big screens were).

    Doubtless the people who had to move their cars were grumpy. How many cars do we reckon can be parked in Queen Street? How many people enjoyed the traffic free area?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    "How many people enjoyed the traffic free area?"

    Quite - and presumably most hadn't parked anywhere - or at least walked some distance.

    George Street is becoming a useful 'civic space', but it certainly isn't really a 'flagship cycle route'.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    A huge number were parked on Queen St. Giving quite a lot of people a bit too much credit ;)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. fimm
    Member

    I was kind of assuming that the cars that were parked on Queen Street were the cars that had been displaced from George Street?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. crowriver
    Member

    From the PoP Fb group:

    ---

    The Edinburgh Council solution to drivers knocking down bollards on the George St cycle lane? Just remove all the bollards ‪#‎modelcyclingcity‬

    ---

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    I watched it drive there.

    Along the cycle lane of course (no bollards)!

    (No other cyclists in either direction as I cycle the whole length at a leisurely pace.)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Yesterday afternoon Tulyar and I cycled the George St cycle lanes, east to west.

    To be fair to CEC, the (south)eastern half of the street was absolutely chock-a-block with people walking around, standing, taking photos and so on. But as you might expect, the cycle lane as a piece of infrastructure wasn't really worth the paint it was…painted with. I nearly wore out my bell because I was pinging it non-stop. Eventually I gave up because only about half of the people heard it or acknowledged it, and those who did either looked behind themselves and shuffled to one side, or froze on the spot.

    We passed the halfway point involving a rather too-exciting sideways slide as a front tyre met the slippy manhole cover that's right next to the cycle lane's dashed markings around the statue of William Pitt. Probably this one; also note the displeasure of a pedestrian as the Google car ignored the zebra crossing on the day!

    The western side of George St was deathly quiet. We encountered only one person using the cycle lane, and a total absence of crowds. One lady motorist had parked her car in an 'otherwise' bona fide parking space somewhere along that stretch. I wonder how the car came to be parked alongside a cyclists-only stretch of road?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  29. PS
    Member

    The western block of George Street always has been much quieter than the other three.

    During the week peds have continued to stay on the pavement, which leads to extra ped congestion as the pavement is constricted between outside tables and marquees (cf Le Monde). I can't see that being solved until the street is resurfaced in a pedestrian-friendly way, hopefully with different surface (grade separated?) for cycles.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  30. crowriver
    Member

    Apparently new bollards have gone in on the George Street cycle lanes. Wonder how long they'll last?

    Posted 9 years ago #

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