Excellent. Naughty CycleStreets, though.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
George Street Improvements
(1175 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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I do as kaputnik does. On a Brompton, but about 8:30 - 9pm at night, so the traffic isn't heavy (but is mostly fast-moving taxis who tend to then pass on your left once the driver realises what you're doing).
Posted 9 years ago # -
At what point do you get over to the right of two lanes of northbound traffic??
Less confident cyclists don't. They turn left at Charlotte Square and go all the way around to (attempt to) get through the two lanes of traffic on North Charlotte Street, and then make the unsighted left turn onto George St.
Posted 9 years ago # -
get through the two lanes of traffic on North Charlotte Street
Don't you have to get through 4 lanes there? 2 northbound then 2 southbound. The latter are sometimes snarled up, allowing you to filter in, but there ain't much space, and Traffic coming off Princes Street direction is usually fairly fast and solid by the time it reaches N. Charlotte Street.
Posted 9 years ago # -
There's a filter light and lane for turning right into George St from Charlotte Sq. You just have to cross 2 lanes to get to it.
It does leave you in a very vulnerable feeling position with traffic moving fast on both sides and with southbound cars cutting in early for the right turn behind you.
Not sure if the lights actually recognise cyclists though they do change frequently to let traffic out of George St.Posted 9 years ago # -
"At what point do you get over to the right of two lanes of northbound traffic??"
"It does leave you in a very vulnerable feeling position with traffic moving fast on both sides and with southbound cars cutting in early for the right turn behind you."
Today.
So much space, so badly used.
It's all about "traffic flow".
Except it's NOT - so many traffic lights, so much racing by motors from one set to the next.
Posted 9 years ago # -
AHEM. I think you mean Rutland Square > Coates/Atholl Crescent (going west) > Shandwick Place > Stafford Street, if the "no right turn" sign out of Rutland Square is to be believed...
I use this route regularly, and often use the adjacent crossing - unlike the right-turning taxis I see probably one time in three.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Hey! There's a surviving bollard!
Boyfriend and I took the bus to the pub yesterday and as we were walking through St Andrew Square he was remarking that he thought they'd given up on the George Street bollards. Interesting to see that at least one is still there.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Bollards up today have not seen on car drive on cycle lane
Posted 9 years ago # -
Spotted this today on CEC's FOI disclosure log:
"Cycle lanes on George Street
Copies of all enforcement actions taken in relation to motor vehicles being driven into, on or out of the cycle lanes on George Street since the date of their public introduction, and describe the applicable TROs."
Only thing is, CEC has no information on this, not even on the parking issue. So who would? Police Scotland?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'd say Police Scotland. As the area is technically not a road, I'm guessing CEC can't put tickets on the cars.
No bollards on the "dome" section today. The ones from Hanover street to Fredrick street seem to be doing well though and are still standing.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Tried George Street as a pedestrian with the family yesterday, from Hanover Street to St Andrew Square.
Actually much nicer to walk along than the overcrowded Princes Street. One thing did strike me: large groups of pedestrians walking four or five abreast in the cycle lane, quite oblivious to any markings. Didn't see any motor vehicles transgressing.
Also, St Andrew Square garden is completely ruined by all this crass festive commercial activity: ice rink is OTT, all those trader stalls. Square at the foot of the Mound is taken over by overpriced hot dog stands too. It's really too much, I hate it. My kids are interested in going on the carousel though, so I'm sure we'll be back in St Andrew Square soon...
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
An Auckland Council spokesman could not give details about which, if any, streets had been identified as potential shared spaces, but said affected businesses would be consulted before any changes.
Seven central Auckland streets - Darby, Elliott, Fort, Lorne, Federal and O'Connell Sts, and Fort Lane - are shared spaces. O'Connell St only switched in September and Federal St early last month.
Vehicles can only stop in those streets for five-minute loading, deliveries and drop-offs between 6am and 11pm. A total of 13,572 tickets were issued to motorists between January 2011 and September this year for illegally parking in the city's five original shared streets.
"
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11377431
Posted 9 years ago # -
The 28% of their respondents using trains to get to George Street deserve a medal.
20% said the ease of parking their bike was important for them being in George Street that day even though only 11% arrived by bicycle. Eh?
"I know darling" said 66% of respondents "let's go to George Street where there is clear segregation between cycles and pedestrians." Said no one ever.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Not all the slides came up on my iPad. It is quite a broad brush and number of respondents I am making a stab at unless I missed it, from the comments on improvements table circa 150? With train and bus users the biggest respondents.
They allow minority users - cyclists and car drivers a fair chance to express opinion.
If I am going through edinburgh from west to east in the middle of the day I will use it - it works very well, even crossing over dependent on the traffic light sequence at the Hanover junction. Once you are used to it is less confusing. Rush hour I will stick to the grassmarket and cowgate route which is far from perfect but does flow better and mostly you know where the bad driving will come in.
The council is doing pedestrianisation by segment and this is how they did it in Glasgow which often gets a mention. Bottom of Buchanan St, then years later top bit etc
They should make it all cobbles and hedges but leave a Tarmac strip for bikes on either side. And have no parking. However, that is just my view. The. Best we can hope for is a solution that attempts to appease everyone? They then need to stick to it rather than reverse good decisions (see bus lane fiasco).
If we want the george street improvements to continue we need to support this project. Also solutions are preferable to moaning.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The. Best we can hope for is a solution that attempts to appease everyone?
I think that's what we've got at the moment:
Car parking all the way up the street - attempt to appease car drivers
Segregated cycle lane - attempt to appease cyclists
Marquees and searing areas - attempt to appease restauranteurs
Radom other spaces turned over to peds - attempt to appease pedestriansUnfortunately, it has just ended up a guddle where no-one is happy, not helped by its trial nature which means it looks like a temporary mess (tarmaced road puts off peds, temporary barriers look shabby, massive puddles and surface water presumably caused by the marquees, the imperfections of the cycle lane, and drivers demonstrating they are too dumb to be trusted with a car).
What it really needs is some ballsy decision making, but I suspect the Council lost that ability roundabout the time of the congestion charge referendum and was further neutered by the trams shambles.
If a gradual approach is the way forward, then I'd suggest a full pedestrianisation of the block in front of the Assembly Rooms, with some proper public realm improvements. Then roll it out block by block.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Persistently 3 cars parked end-on today, on the double yellows (with pavement flashes) on the North side of St Andrew Sq, opposite Multrees.
2 with tickets, 1 got towed, at least 3 escaped scot free.
As soon as one left, another took its place. I reckon they see a £30 ticket as cheap parking. Obviously the fines are too low. £200 might make them think twice, although I realise that's not far off what you get for killing someone.
WAR. ON. MOTORISTS.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I have noticed that the hatched areas at the statues/roundabouts/junctions are being used as unofficial taxi and Royal Mail waiting bays. Which is fabulous because it completely blocks the view of anything which may be coming around the back of the statue by way of a U-turn. Add that to the big grey information boards, the 2-tier planter and the marquees they'd be struggling to make visibility for cyclists any worse.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Spotted last week that there's still a filter light for traffic turning from St Andrew Square southbound in to George Street.
Cyclists have their own dedicated crossing light
Posted 9 years ago # -
6 Disabled and one non-disabled car parked in George Street "pedestrian" area this afternoon.
Posted 9 years ago # -
http://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/george-street-experiment-thrives-success-and-failure
"I can reassure readers that the marquees and decking will not be returning after the trial comes to a close (and they may well be removed before the trial concludes in September 2015)."
"The Council has no wish to hand over civic space to commercial interests,"
etc
Posted 9 years ago # -
That's really interesting, especially the stuff about the marquees, thank you for the link.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
There is an undoubted lack of symmetry to the trial layout, but I can reassure readers that this is not the long-term proposal for the street. A number of cycle groups have expressed their preference for a more conventional and symmetrical layout for any long-term cycle facility on the street, and the return of the pleasing symmetry of James Craig’s plan should be welcomed.
In terms of how the design side will be addressed during the trial, there will be an independent design expert appointed early in the New Year (independent of the Council) who will lead a design-led workshop process, providing a SWOT analysis and careful scrutiny of four design options.
These will include the previous layout, a one-way system layout (similar to the current one), a more pedestrianised layout, and then a fourth option (which will begin with a series of design principles rather than a specific layout in mind and work up an option based on sound design principles).
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Some good stuff from Iain MacPhail there. More pedestrianised and properly paved (like the Grassmarket) would get my vote. Good response to the "why are you changing lovely (for which read pretty crappy) George Street" commentators too.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Good. The changes sound a bit more sensible. Well done cooncil.
I hate the marquees but can't put my finger on why.
Posted 9 years ago # -
If I was eating in a george St restaurant I would specify I did not want a table in their hut.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The marquee worked in summer but in winter may be too cold often, marquee busy just now.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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