Maybe the Council could get a demo site for a reboundable pole? "Rebound Crash friendly designed to rebound 1,000 times." = about 30 times a day for a month
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
George Street Improvements
(1192 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Apologies for length of this. Its a response from CEC about contractors vehicles driving in the "cycle" lanes.
The respondent was iain mcphail, who, as you might read, has offered to deal with queries directly. His email is iain.macphail@edinburgh.gov.uk
Sean, thanks for your email. Before I address it, I wanted to say, it takes a while for complaints to be passed on, just a few days, but still a delay. If you wanted, I'd be happy on George Street matters if you wanted to email me directly. You wouldn't have to, of course, but I mention it just to say that a direct email conversation can lead to quicker responses, that's all.
Regarding your query here, there is deemed permission for emergency services vehicles and maintenance vehicles in particular. We worked very closely with these groups, especially the fire and police services, to test out a variety of bollards that would provide quick access (which could, ultimately, save a life by reducing delay) but which also then allowed for safety of use for cyclists and pedestrians during the vast majority of the time when no access would be required (access being purely in rare and exceptional circumstances).
There is no key because the bollards use a combination lock. We had tested out bounce-back bollards (of a type you find in many other local authority areas) but the fire service's new engines are not compatible with them. That has saved us from a bad investment here in Edinburgh, as testing in advance allowed us to look at other solutions without any money being spent. Other local authorities may find out soon that they need to replace their bollards if they have the bounce-back bollards in place (they catch on the snow chains which the new fire appliances store on the undercarriage - dragging any bounce back bollards with them when they go over the top!). So, a combination padlock was the agreed solution on George Street, satisfying all of the emergency services. All emergency services and regular maintenance operators have the combination to allow access.
For construction vehicles, permission should be sought. It is not deemed and there is no automatic right of access. It sounded like it was sought and granted in this case. No vehicles should be mounting pavements though. I'll be happy to speak to the company in question and talk them through what has been reported here.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Definitely no bollards back on George Street yet.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Cycled past a bollard yesterday on the north side
Posted 9 years ago # -
A couple at 3:00
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thems the old ones, the only 2 survivors.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thought they had ALL gone??
Posted 9 years ago # -
Ah, I thought they did not need bollards as everyone is good at not driving in the bike lanes and pedestrianised areas except that is rubbish and bollards set to return?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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17th March 10 - 1
"
Dear all,
You may recall a few months ago there was a commitment from the Council to hold quarterly stakeholder meetings, on the subject of the George Street One Way system, pedestrianised space and cycle path. The committee report can be seen here
There are two agenda items for this meeting on :10am – 11.30am
City Centre Vision update
The George Street Trial is one part of the wider dynamic city centre in Edinburgh.
It does not sit in isolation & City Centre Programme Manager Iain MacPhail will give a presentation on the wider City Centre Vision & where George Street fits within that – including updates on what is being delivered and what is planned for the city centre, from George Street to the West End, Old Town, New Town & the East End.
This presentation will also outline work on the development of a Public Spaces Manifesto, on the use & management of civic spaces in the city centre.
The City Centre Vision presentation will outline (i) the public realm and transport projects that will change the look of the city centre, allied with (ii) how those spaces will be used, and how the city will seek to overcome issues such as over use, under use or mono use of different key spaces within the city centre.11.30am to 1pm – Focus on the George Street Trial
Presentation of the most recent quarterly Research Feedback by Research Resource - A comprehensive research package is already underway, with 1200 people to be interviewed across the year. This research has been informed by your previous consultation input, is being undertaken by an independent research company and broadly asks “what has worked well on George Street, what has not, what would you change if a more permanent arrangement was to be put in place”.
This meeting will receive live, up-to-date feedback from the research team. It’s an opportunity to hear what people are saying and to ask any questions you may have.Developing the long term design of the street is a key task for the second half of trial. The process will be outlined, informing you how this will happen and how you can participate in that important aspect of the trial.
I hope you can make it along or that you can send a replacement.
Kind regards"
Posted 9 years ago # -
good as was driven at by Black Range ROver - LP - Pub1
Not at speed and could see what it was up to (driving up a bike lane from Hard Rock Cafe towards two cyclists who were waiting for the green light)
Have reported to Iain MacPhail mentioned above who has overall responsibility and to person dealing with George St
Posted 9 years ago # -
From a councillor -
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"The process is as follows. Shortly a tender will be let to appoint a designer who will carry out an iterative design process to scope out what has been successful, what has not worked, or could work better to develop a set of design principles which will lead to options of which one will be chosen by the Council for the future state of George street. We cannot continue the ETRO until this process is finished and the street will have to return to its previous state at the end of the trial. I think we should continue to have cycle lanes in whatever is chosen next. It is probably more helpful to focus on the process at this point as the rules under which the ETRO was put in place mean a return to the previous situation. The speed of the design process is vital!"
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Interesting snippet from one of the appendices to Council Transport & Environment Committee papers, on the George Street experiment (my bold):
"3.19 On 1 September 2015, work will begin to remove the temporary materials and the businesses’ decking and marquees that have been introduced onto George Street for the trial year. Although there may be some aspects of the ETRO that would feature in the design options for the future layout of George Street it is not possible to retain these on a permanent basis without going through the process of promoting a new TRO. The Experimental TRO is time-limited, and on its expiry the previous road layout and traffic management arrangements are considered to be automatically reinstated. The legal process attached to ETROs specifically rules out the possibility of retaining a trial layout and interim traffic management arrangements until a permanent TRO is implemented. In particular, any measure that would make loading restrictions more onerous would automatically trigger a hearing in the event of objections being received.
3.20 Therefore for the period of time that the future layout of the street is being debated and approved, the street will revert to its previous layout, with two lanes of eastbound traffic and two lanes of westbound traffic. There are some aspects of the trial layout that have been widely welcomed. Consideration can be given as to whether the setted parking bays in the middle of George Street should be returned for use as parking or for some other purpose as civic space/public realm, and whether a cycling facility could be retained on a more conventional layout, with eastbound traffic on the northern carriageway and westbound on the southern carriageway."
Posted 9 years ago # -
3.20 Therefore for the period of time that the future layout of the street is being debated and approved, the street will revert to its previous layout, with two lanes of eastbound traffic and two lanes of westbound traffic.......and whether a cycling facility could be retained on a more conventional layout, with eastbound traffic on the northern carriageway and westbound on the southern carriageway."
Interesting. Was always on cards then with a TRO? Parking options as always are a consideration. Some aspects were welcomed apparently...
Ta for heads up on that.
Posted 9 years ago # -
One nice thing from the George Street mid-term review is that there are good statistics on how people visiting George street during the day got there. We have plenty of statistics on how people get to work, stats on how shoppers get to the city centre are somewhat harder to come across.
Apparently only 14% get there by car, somewhat surprisingly 28% got there by train... 26% foot, 17% bus, 11% bike, 3% tram, 1% taxi. They've been interviewing 100 people a month for six months so the numbers aren't huge.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
A RADICAL shake-up of one of Edinburgh’s flagship thoroughfares should be ordered, to hand over much more space to pedestrians, cyclists, al-fresco bars and restaurants and festival events, a city centre chief has urged.
Andy Neal, outgoing chief executive of Essential Edinburgh, has suggested making George Street traffic-free at certain times of the year or during the day to boost its fortunes.
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Essential Edinburgh's visible contribution to the George Street pilot was a load of badly placed planters dumped as obstructions to turning left into George Street from Charlotte Square and various other bits of scenic but obstructive streetjunk.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The council report is actually encouraging. The response to questions show that people view the aims very favourably and with refinement we could achieve a genuinely good result. Of course the drivers don't want any change, but that's no surprise.
Fully pedestrianised plus a segregated bike lane? It could happen!
Posted 9 years ago # -
@kaputnik Have you not read the report? Those planters may have helped Edinburgh be awarded a 'Gold' (though not the gold, for there are several) award in the entente florale.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Bundling up sensible transport changes with daft ideas about al fresco dining (today anyone?) does not help. Why does the council not have anyone prepared to say that there is nothing sold in George Street that you cannot carry onto a bus or a tram, and that only 14% of shoppers come by car? Challenge the comentards on the EEN and actually make an argument with them in the forum they choose.
Posted 9 years ago # -
to be fair to him, I read that to be him saying that we need some 'public' space on george st, not just restaurants and shops. e.g. places where you can just sit and read a paper.
I may be reading my own preferences into it of course
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Challenge the comentards on the EEN and actually make an argument with them in the forum they choose."
Various CCEers have tried that at various times.
ENews commenters generally don't seem to want their views altered by 'facts' or gentle debate.
Posted 9 years ago # -
only 14% of shoppers come by car
That is because of the anti-car brigade and SPOKES and ISIS/POP and all the other eco hippy nazi's. It is what Hitler would have wanted. Froth. What we need is more parking and more roads. Penguin.
There you go, I have brought the argument here instead! ;-)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Is anyone going to the George St stakeholder meeting tomorrow that Chdot posted about earlier? Would be great to hear what the research says.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Good photo of M:Pact SM14 USU scaffolding lorry parked (abandoned) in the middle of the cycle lane at the Castle Street junction this morning. What really takes the biscuit is how there's actually tarmac space for the lorry on either side of it, where it would just be a visual distraction, but they've chosen the middle of the lane. Think I'll email it to Ian Mcphail, as if he needs further evidence of why proper fire-engine friendly but vehicle-resistant bollards are required.
Posted 9 years ago # -
On site
50 people present
Ian MacPhail into
'You are first to see new ideas'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago # -
THESE ARE NOTES NOT DIRECT QUOTES
Lot of visions over years
Need new approach
Previously top down
Big maps - give us your feedback - people say don't like
2 years time 250th anniversary James Craig's New Town
Castle Street not fully working
Bit of white elephant
Hugh variety of different stakeholders
Residents, various types of business so always someone to object - fear if event goes in once will become permanent
Castle Street "fantastic space"
Kelpies coming!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Now talking about improving Royal Mile
"Edinburgh got so much to celebrate"
Tenders out for improvement - 6 came back, top 3 genuinely world class
Winner previously did Google roof garden in London.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Now showing map "Ensuring Strategic Linkage, Use & Management of Space"
Mentioned NCN
Posted 9 years ago #
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