"and asking which if them is wrong."
Oh dear, I can see the "easy way out" being that the council update their blog post and deny any knowledge of the cycle route being usable for the duration.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
George Street Improvements
(1175 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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I do wonder that. Got the page open as it happens on the Council statement and will be taking a screenshot.
Bee in my bonnet? Why yes.
Posted 8 years ago # -
It wisne me. A big boy done it and ran away.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hehehehehehe!
You'd get away with that Min, whereas I suspect I wouldn't. The Council, meanwhile, is pretty much bigger than most and definitely shouldn't.
Posted 8 years ago # -
...Wow. They actually deleted it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
How shocking and revisionist!
Available, for now, in the google cache just in case you thought it was being made up.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"He shifted his weight from foot to foot, but it was equally uncomfortable on each. Obviously somebody had been appallingly incompetent and he hoped to God it wasn't him."
Council representative Mr L Prosser, as written by Mr D Adams.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Festival changes to George Street traffic
This year’s festival will see minimal changes to traffic management on George Street.
The street’s two-way cycle lane will be reduced between Castle Street and Frederick Street until 31st August.
Events promoter Universal Arts has committed to retaining the eastbound cycle facility, which will be routed around their performance area and bar.
The westbound carriageway will remain open to drivers between 6am and 6.30pm from 5th to 31st August though will close outwith working hours. Cyclists may travel through the site at any time.
In September 2014 the Council introduced a dedicated two-way cycle lane, additional pedestrian space and a one-way traffic system for cars as part of a one-year-trial.
The changes aimed to make the street more attractive to shoppers, residents and tourists, and were approved as part of a wider city centre vision in October 2013.
Upon completion of the trial in September this year, an advisory cycle lane will be introduced on the north side of the street for eastbound cyclists and on the south side of the street for westbound cyclists. The street will also revert to four lanes of traffic while the Council considers the results of the trial and the street’s future layout.
An independently-led design process is already underway, and has been specifically set up to involve residents, businesses and all other stakeholders who are interested in the future of George Street.
Open days will be held by independent designers Ironside Farrar during the summer, where anyone will be welcome to drop in and give their views. The purpose of this work is to agree design principles and examine a range of options for George Street’s layout.
The first public drop-in will be all day on 13 August in the Roxburghe Hotel.
This entry was posted by Media Team on 04/08/2015."
Posted 8 years ago # -
EDIT -
POSTED AT SAME TIME AS PREVIOUS POST!
For elimination of doubt -
"
This is Google's cache of http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/blog/index.php?path=blog/newsblog/post/872.
It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Aug 4, 2015 15:52:04 GMT.
The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more
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News blog
Festival changes to George Street traffic
This year’s festival will see minimal changes to traffic management on George Street.
The street’s two-way cycle lane will be reduced between Castle Street and Frederick Street until 31st August.Events promoter Universal Arts has committed to retaining the eastbound cycle facility, which will be routed around their performance area and bar.
The westbound carriageway will remain open to drivers between 6am and 6.30pm from 5th to 31st August though will close outwith working hours. Cyclists may travel through the site at any time.
In September 2014 the Council introduced a dedicated two-way cycle lane, additional pedestrian space and a one-way traffic system for cars as part of a one-year-trial.
The changes aimed to make the street more attractive to shoppers, residents and tourists, and were approved as part of a wider city centre vision in October 2013.
Upon completion of the trial in September this year, an advisory cycle lane will be introduced on the north side of the street for eastbound cyclists and on the south side of the street for westbound cyclists. The street will also revert to four lanes of traffic while the Council considers the results of the trial and the street’s future layout.
An independently-led design process is already underway, and has been specifically set up to involve residents, businesses and all other stakeholders who are interested in the future of George Street.
Open days will be held by independent designers Ironside Farrar during the summer, where anyone will be welcome to drop in and give their views. The purpose of this work is to agree design principles and examine a range of options for George Street’s layout.
The first public drop-in will be all day on 13 August in the Roxburghe Hotel.
This entry was posted by Media Team on 04/08/2015.
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Posted 8 years ago # -
actual screengrab here;
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/f8e26e36-f488-41fb-b0b2-ee50ebf51e45/cc1372db0626d994
Posted 8 years ago # -
The on-street seating and concrete blockages will render the footway unsuitable during peak pedestrianism. There's probably space right next to the kerb for a bike-sneak, whereas the cycle lane is now the route to the toilets at the rear of the bar area. There was a bonus van parked on the eastern end of the compound too, so they're possibly thinking about using the remainder of the cycle lane for deliveries during their temporary infestation.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just a thought lest we lose sight of the wood because of the trees... I'd be interested if others agree...
I personally have no issue with George Street being used for events - even if it means losing this as space for cycling. It has the potential to be an amazing street - a credit to Edinburgh.
The REAL issue is that this is currently the only sensible(ish) route East-West across the city centre. My wife has been using this to commute to work - her alternate route won't be on a neighbouring street, but via The Meadows/Royal Mile/Easter Road (the latter bit being in her words "not very nice even at 6am").
For Scotland's capital to have only one East-West route suitable for cycling by normal people isn't OK...
Posted 8 years ago # -
"The REAL issue is that this is currently the only sensible(ish) route East-West "
That's true.
On 'here' there is much debate about whether G St is (part of) any sort of suitable route.
More important (wood/trees) is that ONCE AGAIN the staff at CEC (or maybe the problem is arms-length Essential Edinburgh??) have FAILED to do what politicians 'promised'
LH SHOULDN'T have to be having a site meeting tomorrow.
IF CEC had said 'look folks, central Edinburgh is too valuable/important to have a proper cycle route 52 weeks of the year please be civic and push your bikes for a few metres - for the sake of the Festival City'...
BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED
Posted 8 years ago # -
Agree BUT, this is why George Street should never have been 'chosen' to have segregated cycle lanes. And they shouldn't have claimed the lane would be left in place.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well yes, but once again - again - CEC comes across as incompetent/disingenuous/stupid/etc.
As people who happen to ride bikes - for many reasons - to have a council saying 'we want to encourage cycling' and then KEEP doing this sort of thing, really isn't good enough.
Clearly CEC isn't employing enough people willing to actually implement council policy. This is quite serious.
Posted 8 years ago # -
It's the disconnect between policy and implementation that is so frustrating. The policies look great, implementation is dire and so so slow.
As for the people involved as councillors and officials (and I have no first hand knowledge of any of them) the councillors come across as too fearty. If only there was someone like that chap in Groningen who just remodelled the city, and guess what, everybody realised it was better. As for officials, they seem so blinkered and conservative. There's always a reason they can't do what sensible and expert people suggest.
You're right @chdot it just isn't good enough.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Answer is surely to take the whole street and pedestrianise. Plenty of space and less roads to drive on would encourage walking and cycling during festival. The 'now it's a bike lane / now it's a venue' approach is so at odds with the trends Essential Edinburgh purports to encourage. During the festival the city can and should think big to reduce polution and make an environment that puts people first (particularly those that live and work in the centre and don't clutter it up with their private cars).
Posted 8 years ago # -
If the council can be persuaded to stop pulling this kind of stunt with an experimental cycle lane they might be better-placed to not permit someone to plonk a temporary bar atop decent permanent infrastructure, should we ever get any.
Posted 8 years ago # -
One part of the problem is that the wider benefit of pedestrianisation which we agree with is not widely shared. For example, a few people may still be clinging to the old idea that you can park on George St. There do still seem to be cars and motorbikes in every available slot for example. People want to be able to park their car ten yards from their destination. Obviously other people shouldn't be allowed to do that. The stealth pedestrianisation of the royal mile has been more successful as it has not removed much parking? The shop owners have another perspective but Buchanan St is a good counter argument (even has some of the same shops). Also as previously posted if the information was please can you just get off and push please that is also fair enough. The pub is presumably paying money to pop up in the street.
If George St becomes part of the roseburn leith route for real then I am guessing they are going to have to work this out to avoid future shambles.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Laidback - "Answer is surely to take the whole street and pedestrianise"
100% agree
Did anyone read the articel about the dutch city (gronigen?) where politicians in the 1970s closed the city centre overnight and made it impossible to drive straight through - same arguments arose (no shoppers will come etc), death threats to politicians - surprise surprise it worked.
It just needs politicians with backbone to see past the car. I have a car and never drive into the city centre - only a looney wants to park in george street !! We have a first class bus / tram service and almost all services pass through the central part of Edinburgh - nobody needs a car to get to George Street.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I have no issue with the fact that the cycle lane was taken away per se - I've been cycling for long enough that I'm not too bothered by using Princes/Queen Street instead (although I'd rather not for obvious reasons).
What worries me is the implementation, as everyone above has said, and the effect on less experienced cyclists. If you rely on a quiet route like GS for everyday commuting or just errand running, to have that suddenly taken away without warning is quite discouraging.
Plus, it just makes me feel completely disregarded. I contribute to this city, too, and don't really ask for that much in return. But I feel like I'm being treated like a second class citizen just because I don't own a car every time something like this happens. It's ridiculous.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I think most (all?) would agree with rbrtwtmn that George Street as a performance space, or open air bar area, is actually a great idea - it just doesn't work as such with the current layout if the thinking is that to do so we still can't do anything to limit the number of cars.
For years and years I've been a supporter of 'pedestrianize George Street'. It would be a boulevard of immense beauty to rival any in Europe. Easily. You can then also easily have space for a two-way cycle lane, and any bar space in the pedestrianized area is perfectly permeable for people walking. It would be such a selling point for the city, if only the blinkers could be removed.
The biggest problem with the current shambles (thanks gembo, sums it up nicely) is the disconnect between so many things. The lovely rhetoric not making it into something practical on the ground; the Council saying one thing, the contractor doing another (which is happening all over the city by the looks of it); and the main disconnect being the lack of understanding of cycling itself. Cyclists dismounting, or being routed round an awful rough-sett alleyway, with an even rougher right uphill turn at the end to get back to the route, just isn't a solution in any respect.
Posted 8 years ago # -
People want to be able to park their car ten yards from their destination. Obviously other people shouldn't be allowed to do that.
I read an article on the Onion similar to that. Of course with it being the Onion they are kidding. But not really.
Posted 8 years ago # -
As mogwai1375 says above, and other bloggers highlight, cycling is "fragile", and if it's too much hassle, most folk return to other modes.
Some may find the alternatives unattractive, and if they thus have to walk through a crowded pavement anyway, they might as well walk, or take the bus or even bring their car, given there's handy parking...
Robert
Posted 8 years ago # -
Plus, it just makes me feel completely disregarded. I contribute to this city, too, and don't really ask for that much in return. But I feel like I'm being treated like a second class citizen just because I don't own a car every time something like this happens.
I think that is what annoys me the most. The pure, undisguised contempt.
Cyclists.
Dismount.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Something that wingpig hinted at above but I don't think has been said in as many words: this year has been a trial for cycling in George Street. But CEC don't actually seem interested in letting the experiment run.
The path has been broken, blocked, built on, parked in, fenced off and now turned into a watering hole. And this is when the council are theoretically interested in seeing if the cycle path is a good idea.
If the cycle path survives the end of the trial period I don't think it will last that kind of abuse under "normal" conditions.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Maybe Dougal but the year long experiment has shown that come festival, all bets are off. The street will be used to generate income (I hope the pop up pub is paying rent). Not sure how much would be generated by the performance space on royal mile in a direct way but indirectly the free entertainment brings people up that way, mingling, having fun and spending money in the shops. All on foot no cars. YOu do also have to dismount and push due to crowds..
THe simple 100% pedestrianised George St wont work if it is also to have a cycle route through it. Cyclists are meant to dismount on Buchanan St for example.
So really we need to help the council get a solution that works for various interested parties. Not so easy.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Cyclists are meant to dismount on Buchanan St for example."
Really??
Posted 8 years ago # -
"THe simple 100% pedestrianised George St wont work if it is also to have a cycle route through it. Cyclists are meant to dismount on Buchanan St for example."
I saw it more as 90% pedestrianized, with a two-way cycle lane placed in it. Plenty plenty plenty space for that if there's no road or parking spaces. Could have the main road splitting that to go to the Mound no problem (Lyon has a massive, huge, enormous wide boulevard that leads up from Place Bellecour that has one section crossed by a road, and it works - as an aside, the wide boulevards of Lyon, best seen from above at the likes of the Fourviere Basilica, were apparently created so cannon could be fired straight down them to take out rebelling peasants).
Where was I? George Street (figuratively, not literally) - mainly pedestrianized, specific section for bikes, not wiggling about, and not driven on, with connections to the squares at either end. Prettier outside eating bits (don't need 'platforms', in the foreign lands the chairs and tables are simply set out in the pedestrianized area). Job done.
Also, I have an American spellchecker on this machine clearly, damn you and your 'zees'.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"So really we need to help the council get a solution that works for various interested parties."
Not really.
'Council' needs to do what elected councillors have agreed.
"We" - Spokes/CCE/individuals have largely persuaded politicians - and a wider public - of the principle of a cycle route here and also that 'details' like the statue roundabouts aren't a good idea.
But IT SEEMS some officials a) know better b) won't be told, so can't be "helped" by 'us'.
Posted 8 years ago #
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