CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
George Street Improvements
(1192 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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That’s John ‘never let the facts get in the way of a good scare story’ McLellan.
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The man with the cycle helmet firmly stuck his comment to the fronds of yellow Post-it notes
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Aka John ‘get the prejudicial buzz words in early’ McLellan.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Gotta love the circular logic here. It's like a diesel engine ticking over whie the driver sits at the lights...
"Edinburgh’s success owes much to the city centre remaining a place where real people live, so that means car ownership is unavoidable if the city centre is to remain an attractive residential district."
Edinburgh's success = place where real people live = car ownership = attractive residential district?
Anyone who can afford to live on George Street can probably afford a taxi or even a chauffeur when they need to pop to Waitrose. But no, apparently the right to park up one's New Town tractor on the public thoroughfare is the key to Edinburgh's success.
"So if car use is to be limited but residents need to be able to drive and businesses need to be serviced, what’s the answer?"
Conflating car use with business deliveries doesn't really help address the issues either.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'd be interested in knowing how many of the cars parked on George Street are owned by residents. Not many, I'd guess. In fact, the vehicles there seem to be contractor vans most of the time.
As for closing George Street to traffic causing congestion on Queen Street. ? Who in their right mind uses George Street as a through route in their car?
And sensible delivery practices are not beyond the wits of all those pedestrianized and pleasant city centres in Europe.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Apparently there are quite a few residents' parking bays in the George St / New Town area covered by the consultation.
Anna Harriman thought they could appease the residents by converting some of the pay & display to residents bays outwith the area e.g. Abercrombie Pl.
Also, some other info gleaned from Anna:
- 30% of journeys are cross-town, through-journeys, without stopping & these should be eliminated.
- Vans servicing properties are large users of the pay & display on George St. (as PS notes)
- The pay & display on George St generates "a massive, I mean huge, I mean absolutely massive" amount of revenue for CEC. The council is cash strapped and losing that revenue will be a tough call.Posted 6 years ago # -
Revenue should not be a problem if CEC introduces a workplace parking levy. See Nottingham, which has had this for years.
I fear that now George Street is being looked at in isolation, rather than thinking about the city centre as a whole.
Posted 6 years ago # -
From the congestion charge / George St article:
The well-meaning but botched Central Edinburgh Traffic Management Scheme of 2005 had to be reversed because of the confusion it caused throughout the New Town
The well-meaning but botched Central Edinburgh Traffic Management Scheme of 2005 had to be reversed because of a knee-jerk reaction from "lowest common denominator" newspapers such as the chipwrapper, and was never given the chance to bed-in or have minor flaws fixed.
FTFY
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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GEORGE STREET AND FIRST NEW TOWN (‘GNT’) preliminary design project
Progress update
A project web page has now been set up, where all documents that are relevant to this project can be accessed.
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/firstnewtown
Reports on feedback on design objectives from the workshop with stakeholders in December, and a drop-in event in January will shortly be added to the webpage.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I note from a previous posting that the preliminary design was supposed to have been delivered by the end of March 2018:
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12983&page=31&replies=939#post-262911
Posted 6 years ago # -
Apparently
“
Dear All
It is important that your organisation is represented at the below event. If you are unable to make it, please can you send along a delegate (let me know either way).
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“
GNT PROJECT - DEVELOPMENT OF CONCEPT DESIGN
WORKSHOP INVITATION
We are very pleased to invite you, or a substitute from your organisation, to attend a concept development workshop for the George Street and First New Town Public Realm Design project. This will be facilitated by the design team including WYG, LDA Design and the City of Edinburgh Council.
This, and other workshops, will involve you as key stakeholders and groups in exploring several key concept options and solutions, in depth. Following the workshops, a concept for the GNT area will be developed for wider public consultation.
Workshop details:
Monday 9 July 13.30 – 16.30pm.“
If you want to (and can) please PM me.
Posted 6 years ago # -
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WYG Environment Planning Transport Ltd were paid £110,740 for a George Street and New Town consultancy design works for the proposed city centre transformation programme, which could see key roads closed to traffic.
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Posted 6 years ago # -
Great to see some transformational new designs for George Street
Drop-in sessions at the City Art Centre on Thursday (2pm - 7pm), Friday (11am - 5pm) and Saturday (10am - 4pm) to see more
Posted 6 years ago # -
Picture in that link -
Is that really cardboard buildings??
So, CEC wants George Street to be wholly setts?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Setts are fine if they are done properly.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I would hope it's Castle Street-style setts - (arguably) prettier than tarmac but not bumpy.
Posted 6 years ago # -
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Opposition councillors have welcomed a plan to overhaul George Street. Conservatives called on the authority to stick to any agreed plans for the New Town when proposals for the entire city’s transport network are agreed next year.
Conservative transport spokesman, Cllr Nick Cook, said: “The potential for George Street to provide a world class public space are still recognised by many – despite the council’s previously botched attempts at redesign.
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Posted 6 years ago # -
“It is essential that residents and business engage with these new plans to ensure they are compatible with business needs and do not impede the lifestyles of local residents who live in our vibrant city centre."
By this, I assume he means "Everyone in the New Town must carry on driving Range Rovers everywhere."?
Posted 6 years ago # -
This was announced on Forth One FM this morning as:
<1st sentence>
"Plans to remove parking from George St, widen footpaths and create cycleways..." Followed by a soundbite from Lesley MacInnes which actually said the sensible stuff,
Sigh.
REMOVE PARKING. REMOVE PARKING. OH NO. OH NO.
Why couldn't they announce it as:?
"Plans to create two fabulous new plazas in George St, creating a world-class people friendly space in the heart of our WHS..."
Posted 6 years ago # -
There seems to be a set of traffic lights smack bang in the middle of the pedestrian plazas.
I mean where in continental Europe would you ever find the finest pedestrian plazas & piazzas with a set of lights (and attendant traffic jams & fumes) right in the middle?
Time to sack these urban planners and get some competent ones.
Image04_GNT_Hanover_Street_Junction__02434_ by Ed, on FlickrCouncil website: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/2576/draft_concept_design_for_george_street_and_new_town_goes_on_show
Posted 6 years ago # -
Using granite paviours and setts/cobbles massively increases the cost of a project and makes repairs more costly/difficult. Why do the Council insist on doing this? Use basic, robust materials and spread the benefit further.
Also, you only need to look at the loose paving slabs and collapsed cobbles on the Royal Mile to see where this ends up.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I should think cobbles or sets would be fine as long as they don't have any motorised traffic travelling over them. But judging by the traffic lights, it's going to be traffic jam business as usual on Hanover St.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The second picture in the EEN article really does make the design look rubbish, little to no greenery, far too much car space.
From the CEC website:
"Considering the restriction of vehicle access for businesses to essential services such as deliveries and waste collection to key times of day to reduce vehicle dominance while still allowing trade."It's not really clear if that means restricting all vehicle access or only delivery trucks. If it's no longer a car park, what do private cars need to drive down George Street for?
Posted 6 years ago # -
you only need to look at the loose paving slabs and collapsed cobbles on the Royal Mile to see where this ends up.
Setts done properly and not continually dug up or subject to scour can last decades. But so often, it is the motor vehicle that is the cause of the problems.
In about 2002, London's Monmouth Street was relaid with setts and it was brilliant to cycle on, even with a Brompton. It was wearing well for at least its first six years. But after 16 years, look what's happened. That's what cars, car parking, HGV parking and arrogant repairs have done to it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Massive problem with using paving slabs seems to be utility works. They will often rip up the slabs and with put down infill instead, or re lay the now broken slabs. All the while parking on the pavement and breaking up a few more. And then another utility comes along the next week to rip up the same bit...
Also one of the pictures on evening news was a bit odd. For removing parking it seemed to have a lot of parked cars.
I'm still really positive about it though. It's another step in the right direction at least.
Posted 6 years ago # -
At least the creeping pedestrianisation reflects the excellent usage data collected by the second or third lot of consultants showing that people really want to be able to bimble back and forth across the road at all sorts of angles and not be confined to PGR-hemmed staggered crossings.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Beware of artist impressions. From the car and bus seems like it's a shared space type, much like Exhibition Road.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The impression I got from speaking to one of the consultants was that traffic along the street would only be commercial vehicles loading during restricted hours, blue badge drivers and buses.
The inset bus stops were the only answer I was given to mitigate the effect of reducing two lanes each way of solid buses on a Friday teatime (it may be like that every day for all I know) to squeezing the same number of buses in to one lane each way.
It was suggested that other Council initiatives might alter the flow of buses but they are not being taken into consideration in the design. Disappointing, but perhaps not unexpected, silo management by the Council?
Posted 6 years ago # -
There’s clearly a road up the middle - where the “cars to be banned from George Street” headlines came from is a bit of a mystery to me. It’s not going to be much of a rat run though as there is a raised table at each junction, plus a raised plaza in the middle of each block, so cars won’t be able to go very fast.
Seeing as most of the cars on George Street at the moment seem to be looking for a parking space, I’m not entirely sure why a car would be on it in future, as the parking will have been shifted off. So, mainly buses, taxis and blue badge users? Think I’d take that as a starting point, with the option to phase them out after a seasonal experiment of putting the Christmas market on the block between Hanover and Frederick... ;-)
Posted 6 years ago # -
If the plans are anywhere close to repeating the mistakes of Exhibition Road I will be immensely disappointed
It’s the world’s easiest case study into ‘shared spaces don’t mean shit if you don’t remove circulating traffic’
Posted 6 years ago #
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