Looks a bit like Castle Street on a larger scale. Those "loading" bays will be open to abuse. And rat runners gonna rat run, raised tables or not. Can't see how they'll enforce a general traffic ban unless they use ANPR cameras.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
George Street Improvements
(1192 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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The whole thing is very underwhelming.
The two central blocks should be entirely pedestrian piazzas
Posted 6 years ago # -
I don’t see it as shared space, but that’s not to say that certain drivers won’t. I presume they’re relying on the pavement parking ban coming in and, most importantly, being enforced. Could the current parking enforcers be retasked to that? I suspect we’d be better off with raising bollards that could be dropped for authentic blue badgers and deliveries (pre-10am only).
It is one hell of a wide and long street though, so there’s a real need to ensure that it stays animated. Not entirely convinced that cars traipsing up and down the middle is the solution.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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I'm probably being too generous but actually I would tolerate a cross route (with big wide speed-cushions, HGV ban, etc.) between Queen St and the Mound over Hanover Street - without a junction on George St, only pedestrian priority crossings (not push button wait but zebra crossings where it's the vehicles that have to wait their turn)) if in turn the rest of George St was completely pedestrian/cycle only (again, I'd tolerate morning loading through dropped bollard until e.g. 10am but no through traffic i.e. they'd need to turn around and come out again).
All in the best Spirit of Compromise of course!
Add in a motability scooter loan hub, and low cost barrow deliveries and it is accessible for all.My late father would not have been able to walk half a block to go shopping but equally he would not have managed to find a parking space even with a blue badge on most trips, so a disabled access plan where they can "park and ride" more reliably would be appreciated.
As I said on Twitter, make this a haven not a hazard.
Posted 6 years ago # -
IWRATS - thanks, now I understand. It will be just like Glasgow's Buchannan Street...but with buses, taxis, 44-tonne HGVs, cars and on-street parking - or as the Council would have it:
"Creating a welcoming public realm on par with other great global cities by improving accessibility, pedestrian experience and providing interest for people of all ages and abilities."
Here's probably the world's best high street - https://goo.gl/maps/BAEvvXJ19nK2. So not "on par".
Posted 6 years ago # -
"...tolerate morning loading through dropped bollard..."
By sufficiently small vehicles so as to not rupture the surface? The bollard-restricted section of the High Street is usually lined with fairly hefty trucks most mornings. Whenever there's a chunk of George Street closed off there's usually at least one full-size articulated lorry wedged onto the footway at the end each morning.
Off down to this this lunchtime (aided by rentabikes) so I'll try and photograph as many things as possible to post up here for people without access to the City Art Centre.
Posted 6 years ago # -
'People of all abilities' is a lovely phrase. Much more inclusive than the outdated 'everybody'.
I look at that video and I see Rose Street writ large. Everyone being ploughed out of the way by InterServe trucks.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@IWRATS that virtual camera is remarkably cavalier when it comes to crossing roads - a broad glance to the right but absolutely no effort to look left at all. I suspect that the reality won't be safe enough for such behaviour.
Also, what's with the real branding of the vehicles? Is it not-so-subliminal advertising/are they sponsers? It does look like the bicycles may be individual models as well, but the camera never gets close enough to see any brands.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Looks like the pedestrian crossings aren't zebras, but just have a different road surface. Sort of a shared space idea. Which just doesn't work in busy inner city areas. The shared space outside the museums in London doesn't work at all, and is just a road with no crossings. as the pedestrians waiting for a gap on Google Streetview demonstrate https://goo.gl/maps/JuDnd4jxzQv
Posted 6 years ago # -
It's almost like Edinburgh is determined not to have a space where a crowd could gather without getting their feet muddy.
Maybe there's an Edinburgh Town Manual on parchment somewhere warning against the assemblie of diverse lysenchious and unrulie mobbes.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@toomanybikes, even their bumpy cobbles and setts are laid better than ours.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"Rose Street writ large. Everyone being ploughed out of the way by InterServe trucks."
The east of Rose Street has been ridiculous recently. There is building work going on and every day is a smorgasbord of lorries unloading, ridiculous (often un-banksmanned) reversing manoeuvres, telescopic handlers motoring around.
In addition, the pavement on the west side of St Andrew Sq has been dug up, later extending into the first traffic lane. For quite a few days afterwards, no pedestrian provision was made, so peds were having to risk walking along a live traffic lane. Oh, and of course the alternative pavement surrounding the square has been Heras-ed off for the last couple of weeks so the beloved Council can assemble this year's tatfest.
I think Pennywise the Clown must have found gainful employ as a health and safety officer around here or something.
Rant over.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Aaaaah. It wouldn't be a proper George Street consultation without a strident posho honking about symmetry and statues.
Posted 6 years ago # -
lysenchious
I feel a Scots language t-shirt slogan coming on.
In other news, disappointed to see @BellaCaledonia apparently not on board with de-car-ing of city centre over on Twitter.
Posted 6 years ago # -
maybe we should offer to write something for them?
Posted 6 years ago # -
It wouldn't be a proper George Street consultation without a strident posho honking about symmetry and statues.
...and harking back to the glory days of department stores that closed in the 1950s.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Someone needs to Photoshop into those mock-up images all the signage, yellow paint, bollards, cabinets, bus shelters and attendant clutter that goes with allowing motors along George St.
All the parking signage, all the keep left bollards, no-entry signs, roundabout warning signs, directions signs, brown historic interest signs, zebra crossing signs, 20mph signs, 20mph roundels, traffic signals cabinets, bus stops...
Along with the 1000s of randomly parked lorries, vans, taxis & 4x4s...
From what I can see the council have converted "a road with a car park earning the council £3m p.a.", into, "a road with a car park earning the council nothing".
Well done! Slow hand clap.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Aaaaah. It wouldn't be a proper George Street consultation without a strident posho honking about symmetry and statues.
One of the officials I spoke to mentioned in passing that none of the original buildings remained - even the frontage of the Assembly Rooms is different to the original plan. So, given that architectural symmetry does not apply, is theoretical symmetry the one thing that survives of James Craig's plan?
An unexpected revelation of the draft plans is that Frederick Street is slightly off square when compared to the other streets in the Original New Town grid. This is a game changer and puts all those symmetry advocates firmly in the bucket.
Posted 6 years ago # -
An unexpected revelation of the draft plans is that Frederick Street is slightly off square
So it is! It's so obvious when pointed out.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Hee, I'm pretty sure there are peds stood chatting in the bike lanes at 1.07. At least that part is realistic?
Posted 6 years ago # -
"...is theoretical symmetry the one thing that survives of James Craig's plan?"
Also the absence of trees, apparently. The infoboards did not state whether this was because he didn't like them, wasn't aware of their environmental/health benefits or because the Sort of People for whom the New Town was intended had plenty of large trees in their grounds at home and didn't want them cluttering up their magnificent long/wide/symmetrical sandstone statements.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I appreciate that all those cars in the CGI seem to be stuck in first gear but how dumb do they think we are?
Posted 6 years ago # -
An unexpected revelation of the draft plans is that Frederick Street is slightly off square.
That's because it actually is. It points ever so slightly more to the northwest-southeast than Castle Street and Hanover Street, and Charlotte Square and St Andrew Square.
James Craig's 1768 plan had all of the streets exactly parallel.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Some good ideas (mostly not new).
But we learnt that there is currently no plan to reduce traffic. Until the volume and type of traffic which uses the street is decided, how can we say if the design is appropriate..?If this is true then the whole thing is pointless. But then TIE.
https://twitter.com/livingstreetsed/status/1060924667727372288
Posted 6 years ago # -
Hey dude, "some" pedestrianisation of George Street. How about "pedestrianising George Street". The disappearance of the car parking is a big plus but as a lot of people are saying, it's a missed opportunity. There are still cars travelling along (not just across) George Street.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The plan is somewhat hamstrung by being in flight before the results of the city centre transformation consultation are in. It would look very different if the consultation agreed on far-reaching change and pedestrianisation of the town centre. What price a wee bit of a delay in deciding what George Street looks like until the outcome of that wider, more far-reaching consultation?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Went along to see the plans today with teenage son.
While there are some positives, overall the whole thing is massively disappointing.
Yes, there's a segregated cycle lane, pavements widened, places too sit down, and parking has been removed (except for blue badge holders and a few dedicated loading bays). But general traffic and buses will still be trundling along George Street, polluting the air and generally making it unpleasant.
It's not a transformation, it's a relatively minor, conservative incremental change. Even that may get rolled back somewhat: I overheard various older people complaining about the passing width at junctions for buses, etc.
The "plazas" will not work, just as Exhibition Road in London does not work. Except during the summer and winter festivals that is, when presumably they'll be blocked off.
The expensive new paving will be destroyed in a relatively short space of time by HGVs, double decker buses, and utility works damaging the surface. See Rose Street for example.
The only way this will work at all is full pedestrianisation, and re-routing of buses to Queen Street.
I was so dispirited that I could not be bothered trying to engage verbally with the various representatives there. In passive aggressive mode, I did leave post-it comments on the paper plans and visualisations around the place, to make my views known. Similarly if there's an online consultation I'll feed in my views.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I didn't look closely at the detail on the drawings but when there was told that there will be rising bollards to prevent "normal" traffic using the street.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"An unexpected revelation of the draft plans is that Frederick Street is slightly off square.
That's because it actually is. It points ever so slightly more to the northwest-southeast than Castle Street and Hanover Street, and Charlotte Square and St Andrew Square.
James Craig's 1768 plan had all of the streets exactly parallel."
I've only lived in Edinburgh for approximately 4 decades so it's not surprising that I don't know everything. However this comes as a real surprise.
Does anyone know why it was built squint?
Posted 6 years ago #
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