"Pretty embarrassing really."
You or the council?..
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
George Street Improvements
(1192 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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Had my first ride along (west to east) yesterday and would say it's certainly an improvement on what was there before.
However, at the Charlotte Sq end the eastbound lane is barely wide enough for one, but all the way along there is a metre of unused tarmac between the cyclelanes and the planters/parking. What's going on here?
I can see westbound's going to be more interesting, given it goes against the flow of the roundabouts. I suspect reduced traffic levels will reduce the risk a bit, but will also encourage (or lure folk into) nipping straight across, rather than going around the statues. Desire line analysis may be required as part of the Council's monitoring of the layout.
They've started on the block between St Andrew Square and Hanover St today. The street already feels considerably more pleasant and relaxed. Where are the eastbound buses being diverted to? Queen St and up Hanover? or up St Andrew Sq and into the tram congestion?
Posted 10 years ago # -
I didn't get to see if there were any extra buses on Queen Street this morning as the jammed-solid traffic between London Road through Picardy Placeabout to York Place strongly suggested going up Leith Street/Princes Street instead, but it's been jammed at least as badly as that before the George Street conversion started.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Well both the cooncils planning and then my own complete muffing of the on road signs.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"my own complete muffing of the on road signs"
Well, not sure the painted on the road signs are sufficient to make this scheme work.
Even if they are painted every time they fade slightly.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hmm, it is sounding as if the layout is overly complicated. I do hope the council listen properly to feedback and take advice to fix it rather than just putting in a bunch of "cyclists dismount" signs!
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think the layout is overly complicated and dangerous.
Cars heading west across Castle Street will need to be aware that they are entering a 'roundabout' that has four exits (one for bikes) and five entrances (one for bikes).
I wouldn't be confident that drivers would know or think to check for cyclists appearing from behind and to the right.
Given that it is no longer possible for cars to turn right out of Castle St to head east on George St, there is really no reason to keep the 'roundabout' style to the junction.
They should really fill in the gap between the north side of the statue and the cycle lane (which should be bi-directional obviously).
Posted 10 years ago # -
CEC says
"
One of the key things to note at present is that, although the cycle path may look complete in some parts, the street is still technically a construction site, there are no entry signs still in force, and the cycle path has not yet been opened.
The scheme installation will be completed just in time for the Festival, although it will be formally unveiled and opened on 1 September
"
So not supposed to be open to bikes at all??
If so they need to keep all sections properly barriered off (would stop the taxis too!)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Not open but very cycleable.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Given that it is no longer possible for cars to turn right out of Castle St to head east on George St, there is really no reason to keep the 'roundabout' style to the junction.
They should really fill in the gap between the north side of the statue and the cycle lane (which should be bi-directional obviously).
Spot on. I hadn't thought of that, but there really isn't any reason for a car to be making that manoeuvre. (Although i'm sure there'll be something about delivery or emergency vehicles wanting to use it...)
Posted 10 years ago # -
They should really fill in the gap between the north side of the statue and the cycle lane (which should be bi-directional obviously).
In the real world, I think that's a dangerous suggestion. The chances of southbound cagers on N Castle St reliably checking both directions & giving way to the cycle lane is farfetched in the extreme. They can't manage that for bikes most of the time on standard, as per Highway Code roundabouts...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Does it make any difference though? They still have to check both ways even if the west bound cyclist is going to loop round the other side of the statue.
Posted 10 years ago # -
In the real world, I think that's a dangerous suggestion. The chances of southbound cagers on N Castle St reliably checking both directions & giving way to the cycle lane is farfetched in the extreme. They can't manage that for bikes most of the time on standard, as per Highway Code roundabouts...
Depends on signage and road markings - a "give way" by the statue, for instance, which also give strong messages about priority to vulnerable users). In the long term, reinforceable by street design such as a grade separated cycle path with same height speed tables across the junction. Could all be combined with the current zebra crossing.
With all the changes, Drivers should be getting the message that George St is not a "normal" street so normal priorities do not apply.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Cycled down this morning. My opinion - the lane switch half way along isnt much of a problem, as its a pretty natural way to take a round about, however the other two are bad. The issue with these ones is when you're on the inside lane, there's a risk you and a car going in the same direction pull out together and you are being directed right into said cars path. If its turning right its going to be particularly problematic. I think they might paint out the cars right turn lane?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Cagers?
I only ever cycle it early morning (around 8am) and at 5pm and it's all pretty quiet. Practice your Paddington stare for the roundabouts. I plan to ride it as often as possible and maybe even dust off my little-used Contour and try to make whatever constructive suggestions I can in the forlorn hope that it might become usefully permanent.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Cagers"
Been used on here before IIRC.
Pejorative term for drivers. Don't like it as I drive at least once a week. Makes it all a bit "them and us" for my liking.
Posted 10 years ago # -
As insults go it's pretty rubbish. It's not like they were captured in the wild and are now penned in those 'cages' yearning for the freedom of the open tundra. They volunteer to get in the cage. For many, this cage is their freedom.
Imagine the opposite. Ha ha. Look at the "man" on his stupid straw-frame with no engine getting rained on but making good progress through the congestion. They have to do that stupid sitting-walking thing with the foot things getting where they want to go at a reasonable speed.
And we'd just look at them, incredulous at the stupidity of it as the attempts to pretend that we're forced to do something we choose to do wash over.
Only a straw-frame could imagine that a cager would really rather be a straw-frame.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago # -
chdot - is that a "straight-ahead" junction at Hannover Street? So, they are trialling 2 different options for the junctions? Some credit there for showing awareness of the need to think about that aspect...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Looks like they'll be keeping the traffic light controls at the George St/ Hanover St interface so there's no need to route the cycle lane around the statue. They'll probably have to move the pedestrian crossing lights to match up with the give way lines though.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"So, they are trialling 2 different options for the junctions?"
Well they are making use of the existing traffic lights. I don't know if theses have been re-sequenced (or will be?) to allow a cycle only phase.
"Some credit there for showing awareness of the need to think about that aspect..."
Clearly there has been thought, but painted cycle lines going straight (well right-angled!) into a kerb suggest not enough thought.
They have a couple of weeks to sort it all out (or three if the soft deadline is the Official Festival).
We can't 'judge' until the official opening in September...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Biggest snag experienced so far is that pedestrians, possibly having just exited diagonally-parked cars, making their way north to the decked restauranty section between Charlotte Square and Castle Street, finding no obvious way of getting onto the decking bits will then walk four abreast along the two-way cycle path until they find a way of getting onto the decking/pavement. Maybe when it's all finished and painted and fenced it'll be more obvious.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Clearly there has been thought, but painted cycle lines going straight (well right-angled!) into a kerb suggest not enough thought. "
Don't think we can criticise them for that when the work isn't finished - there will be plenty of time for that later! ;-)
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Don't think we can criticise them for that when the work isn't finished"
I'm trying not to...
Right angle turn hardly 'cycle friendly'.
You'd think it would make sense to sort kerbs (still unresolved at C. Sq. end too) before doing the paint.
I can't work out 'what happens next' - but I haven't given it much thought...
"Maybe when it's all finished and painted and fenced it'll be more obvious."
I think this is just going to part of the 'Festival compromise'.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Apart from the lack of linkages and weird junctions, the lane itself seems very narrow now the decking is going in. I think this is going to be very difficult to negotiate especially as the decking comes right out to the edge of the cycle lane.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I think this is going to be very difficult to negotiate especially as the decking comes right out to the edge of the cycle lane."
It will depend how many bikes use it (in both directions).
As there is no chance of "linkages" any time soon, not sure that there will be many more bikes than there are now.
Posted 10 years ago # -
At the cycle forum, Iain MacPhail from the Council said he would provide a regular update on the installation of the cycle path on George Street as work was expected to take a month to install the new-look George Street scheme.
The following blog covers most of the update: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/blog/newsblog/post/566/george-street-update-cyle-path-on-its-way
One of the key things to note at present is that, although the cycle path may look complete in some parts, the street is still technically a construction site, there are no entry signs still in force, and the cycle path has not yet been opened.
The scheme installation will be completed just in time for the Festival, although it will be formally unveiled and opened on 1 September, for reasons described in the blog.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Unofficially cycled along from St Andrew's Square this morning. The path/road outside the Hard Rock Cafe is awful. I know they're not planning to spend a lot of money but filling in some of the divots wouldn't be too expensive.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'm wondering what CEC has in mind for easy and safe connections through St Andrew Square and Charlotte Square? It seems to be, m'lud, that for example, eastbound one is most likely to try to reach North Bridge or Waterloo Place or Leith St. The east end of Princes St is a nasty dense conglomeration of buses and exhaust fumes.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Continental al fresco dining seen in Florence or Rome is set to become a permanent fixture on George Street with the arrival of Italian-made street marquees next month.
"
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/alfresco-dining-set-to-stay-on-george-street-1-3482973
So the tents will be permanent but the cycle lanes are a one year 'experiment'??
Posted 10 years ago #
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