"Looks as though this scheme may not be as 'temporary' as the Council is making out..."
Altering kerbs happens a lot, so I don't see this as any sign of permanence.
Better than putting in a 'temporary ramp'.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
George Street Improvements
(1175 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Will they be installing some temporary chicanes in a month or two?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Well I finally got around to cycling George Street this afternoon. I had to go to the Hub on Johnstone Terrace/High Street so figured that rather than trying to get through the Fringites on High Street I could go via Lothian Road and try out the new cycle lanes on George Street on the way there and way back. I went during rush hour to see what it would be like.
Connectivity for cyclists to George Street is an issue, especially at the St Andrews Square end. I arrived from Albany Street, so the 'infrastructure' from hell to get across Queen Street was the first problem. Equally poor whether uphill or down. The right turn across tram tracks at the square itself is straightforward, but the road is narrowed by the boarding opposite the redevelopment of a well known office building, and this makes it a horrible bus sandwich experience.
The lanes themselves are, surprisingly, quite good. Eastbound is better than Westbound, it must be said. Partly that's because of the roundabouts and having to whizz around them, partly because the surface on the lanes Westbound is crap at times. Signalised junction at Hanover Street is the best of the junctions, but I did get caught out on the way back. Went past the zebra crossing, and then could not see the traffic lights. So just had to wing it.
The crossover from one side of the street to the other is bloody silly but it's not too bad getting across the roundabout there. Even though it was rush hour, very little traffic about, except for Citylink coaches which blocked the roundabout on the crossover on the way back. Can't they just carry on to Queen Street instead of creating hazards at roundabouts?
Anyway even the diversion round the Assembly Rooms was okay. I think I was enjoying the European vibe, with all the open air cafes, cyclists zipping along, etc. Quite a few clueless peds walking on the cycle lanes: well it is the festival. Good to have a bell.
Having to complete my journey on rush hour Charlotte Square, Princes Street, Lothian Road and Castle Terrace really brought home how pleasant George Street had been in comparison!
A wee anecdote about Johnstone Terrace. It was closed except for buses, taxis and cycles which was quite pleasant. When I emerged from the Hub clutching my tickets, I went to unlock my bike from the railings opposite. A young woman in a hi-viz jacket with a Norn Iron accent (nothing wrong with that, just noticed is all) approached and told me I couldn't park my bike there. "Oh I was just popping in, I'm on my way now", I replied. "Excuse me, you can't cycle on this road either, it's closed." she said as a taxi cruised past in the direction I was about to take. "What about that taxi then? Nobody stopped it from driving." "Only certain vehicles allowed after 5.30pm" came the officious response. I glanced at my watch "It's 20 minutes past, so that gives me ten minutes to get to the foot of the hill then." I said as politely as I could muster, and pedalled off down the road...
Posted 9 years ago # -
Had my first trip down the recently pedestrianised George Street last night and was pleasantly surprised to find some new bike lanes in lovely fresh paint.
Did someone say it hadn't been officially opened? Didn't see any block to getting in from the Charlotte Square end.
Generally a joy to use but for the crap diversion around the Assembly Rooms (which left me standing bewildered at a dead end before noticing the subtle diversion sign).
A couple of questions though:
1) What's supposed to happen at the crossing at the Hanover(?) Street roundabout? The bike lane has dotted lines but no stop lines that I saw. I just carefully nosed out hoping for the best.
2) What are you supposed to do at the St Andrews Square end if heading east? The bike lane in that direction suddenly veers onto the pedestrian island, but I've no idea where to go from there. I ended up gingerly rolling past some tourists standing waiting for the green man and onto the road where I waited (uncomfortably, beyond the traffic light) for the lights to change.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Crowriver quite the jobsworth she sounds. Can private bods with nothing more than the power of the fluorescent vest to back them up actually stop anyone from cycling on a public road (regardless of whether there's a TRO in place which bans cycling while still allowing taxis and buses on?)
I had a quick google around the cooncil website but couldn't find any (obvious) TRO in place anyway...
Posted 9 years ago # -
Can private bods with nothing more than the power of the fluorescent vest to back them up actually stop anyone from cycling on a public road
No, not on a public road.
IF there is a TRO making cycling unlawful at that point in time, well, they could call 101 and request the presence of law enforcement to deal with a dangerously liberated cyclist ;-) but good luck to them with that :-)
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
Edinburgh Council (@Edinburgh_CC)
19/08/2014 14:06
Have you seen the changes to George St? They'll be fully in place once the #edfest is overhttp://pic.twitter.com/uWrPy6nH7q
"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Having ridden this a few times now by and large Westbound is ok (notwithstanding the detour round the Assembly Rooms). Eastbound at the Hanover St junction is lethal however. It's effectively feeding you into oncoming traffic in two ways - firstly you've got a blind left with traffic coming over from Queen St side towards the Mound, I can see those who are unfamilair with the junction simply riding right into the path of traffic.
...and secondly, is there anything to stop traffic coming round the statue and going back down Hanover St towards Queen St (effectively a u-turn). That puts cars and cyclists into direct conflict.
Utter madness and dangerous!!!
Posted 9 years ago # -
I've ridden it a few times now. I agree about the Hanover St junction - that process of switching sides is going to cause lots of problems. I think coloured surfacing is essential there, to guide cyclists who aren't familiar with the junction and to warn drivers that something unusual is in place. Going westbound, the Castle St junction is confusing. It was only on the third time through that I realised I was supposed to go around the statue, like a roundabout, rather than just straight across. Fortunately there's not much motor traffic there. But it's bound to cause conflict.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"bound to cause conflict"
Even without chicanes!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Johnston Terrace supposed restrictions....
"Only certain vehicles allowed after 5.30pm" ?
We live on Lawnmarket and access is fairly random. If you are on a bike the yellow brigade may or may not let you in. Cars and buses do get allowed in of course if they are connected and deemed to be no security risk. The concept of a resident on a bike is quite a tricky one it seems! I have though gone down and up Johnston Terrace whilst the Tattoo was on. I was warned I would have to dismount closer to Hub though. During the day the street is a complete mix of buses, taxis, Ferraris and pavement overspill / performers. It's in effect a pedestrianised street by volume of people versus traffic. Almost no-one cycles it.Back on main topic.
I think we need to take some local representatives on a sortie through here. It's great in places it seems. Any volunteers want to ride this with me on the Quetzal tandem and film the junctions and access points from back? Good camera platform as lot of space for co-pilot.Posted 9 years ago # -
Any volunteers want to ride this with me on the Quetzal tandem and film the junctions and access points from back? Good camera platform as lot of space for co-pilot.
I'd be happy to have a shot, seeing as I've missed out of the privilege to date!
Alternatively, the Pino may be used, as that could arguably be a better camera platform as there is nothing in the way - like the pilot or even handlebars!
Robert
Posted 9 years ago # -
Could to a tandem convoy....!
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm planning to co-pilot one of Edinburgh's longer bicycles with Min along George St tomorrow (27th) at the back of 6. We'll leave from Laid Back Bikes and head down to Charlotte Square to see how easy it is on the new improved bike lanes. If any other people on bikes or tandems want to join us then that's good. Roibeard may want a co-pilot for his steed. Did recce today just to assess. Counted two bikes using but also two cars and two delivery trucks. So is getting used only a wee bit so far.
All do-able except at St Andrew Square end where something mysterious happens....
George Street - new bike lane looking East by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr
George Street - new bike lane looking West by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr
George Street - new bike lane looking East by LaidBackBikes, on FlickrPosted 9 years ago # -
Got this today after emailing the council complaints site last week.
"Many thanks for contacting the City of Edinburgh Council about the cycling arrangements at the junction of Hanover Street and George Street.
This section of the national cycle network will be opened in the next fortnight. It is not open at present as some signalling and kerbing work is still required. The installation work had to halt during the month of August due to the annual arrival of the Fringe, which has a significant on-street presence on George Street, and which brings an embargo on construction work.
The Hanover Street junction is a signalised junction and I can reassure you that the signalling staging is being changed in the next week. This will ensure that when the cycle path is opened cycles will run on their own stage. The staging has been planned and timed so that there will be enough time before and after the stage for both vehicles and cycles respectively to clear the junction. So, they should not be in conflict and the space in question should be cleared before vehicles receive a green light following the cycle stage."
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thanks for confirming that it is 'work in progress'.
Generally I was pretty impressed except at the St Andrew Square end. Once it has been 'launched' I would hope to see more bikes on it than I saw today (2).
Posted 9 years ago # -
Went along George St last night eastbound at about 10.20pm. Quiet with a couple of cyclists coming the other way and some buses crossing.
All that has been said so far about confusion rings true for me. I was following my other half who had done the route westbound in daylight and without that guidance I'm sure I would have got very lost and just reverted to my usual cycle-like-a-car approach.
The dotted paint lines to change sides would be bad enough even if they didn't direct you straight into a zebra crossing. Are you actually supposed to stop on the roundabout? Anyway.
The total disappearance of the trail at St Andrew's Square was also totally baffling. Who thought a violent jerk onto the pavement would be the optimal solution to the problem? I bet there's serious issues when pedestrians are waiting to cross the road at that point.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Sounds like a plan - anyone fancy being a camera
manoperator on the Pino?Robert
Posted 9 years ago # -
"This section of the national cycle network will be opened in the next fortnight."
So 'September 1st' has slipped(?)
Posted 9 years ago # -
"to see how easy it is on the new improved bike lanes"
Well as you know it's not finished.
A guide to 'what needs to be fixed' will be useful to check against in a couple of weeks.
Don't forget to do StASq and the crossing to Dublin St.
Then a tour of chicanes/bollards?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I could pop into town and join yous with a GoPro on me heid. Just for that extra camera angle, in case there aren't enough :)
Posted 9 years ago # -
the trail at St Andrews Square is supposed to take you onto the pavement and around to join the 'cycle route' that takes you down Dublin Street.
The whole of this is a mess and barely worth the label 'cycle infrastructure'. Its just a joke.
So, one of my main concerns remains: George Street improvements only make sense if they link into a wider network, and currently they do not.
Lizzie.Posted 9 years ago # -
Sorry folks, I've been double-booked, so can't pilot this evening. The Pino is still available though if someone else wants to play...
Perhaps another attempt once it's officially open?
Robert
Posted 9 years ago # -
Tonight looks nice for a small 'infrastructure' cycle. At shop from 5 as usual to back of 6 before we set off.
Will do another one, once it's opened, Roibeard.Posted 9 years ago # -
That was good fun. The St Andrew's Square end flummoxed us for a bit though!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Here's you and Arellcat looking happily flummoxed!
George Street Bike Lanes / Pre-opening promenade by LaidBackBikes, on FlickrWe only hit one bike with Quetzal's wing mirror on the ramp at Morrison St. Don't think it was our fault - woman wobbled into us. We both kept going though...(said sorry etc). Certainly wasn't the fault of my co-pilot that was totally tuned in with the handling having ridden it before.
Accompanied a tram into Shandwick Place and then got bike right turn onto George St without too much trouble as traffic wasn't too bad by 6.15.
Some bits were closed off as Festival stuff still coming down.
Finished off with a left turn onto Princes St and up North Bridge.
Fountainbridge shared-use route to Morrison St / Lothian Road by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr
George Street Bike Lanes / Pre-opening promenade by LaidBackBikes, on FlickrWas fun...
Went to Argyle Arms...!Posted 9 years ago # -
Great pictures, Min and LB. :-) The St Andrew Square end really is strange - are you meant to cycle straight across the Toucan crossing and through the middle of the square, knocking down pedestrians as you go? Maybe needs a chicane or two, just to make sure.
As it was, we waited until both the Toucan and the pedestrian crossing to our left were green, then rejoined the road.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"the trail at St Andrews Square is supposed to take you onto the pavement and around to join the 'cycle route' that takes you down Dublin Street."
I'll apologise for shaking my head at the bloke I inwardly abused for doing that this evening. I've been naughtily using this for weeks now, mainly in the evening to get from North Castle St to Waverley and suspect I'll not bother switching sides after Hanover Street when it's open. There's hardly any traffic goes along that far anyway.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Agree with insto Imwill travel west east on the bike lanes and then at Hanover just keep going down the road. East west might be worth crossing to the north side at Hanover?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Cycled George St today and Eastbound at Hanover st junction looks lethal. @dekhard112 - are the council planning more lights or do they mean the ones before the ped crossing?
Posted 9 years ago #
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