CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help

Anyone used helicoils?

(10 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from Tulyar
  • This topic is resolved

  1. crowriver
    Member

    Well on yesterday's Edinburgh-St Andrews ride we managed to strip the threads in the alloy frame where the set screws hold the front eccentric BB in place. Despite some help in Kinross from the event support mechanics (thanks EBC), the stop gap emergency repair failed and we had to ride the last 30k with the front cranks clunking and sliding about from left to right.

    I've looked at replacing the eccentric BB housing with an 'expander' type but it's fairly pricey. As a cheaper alternative I've purchased some new set screws and a helicoil thread repair set with helicoil inserts, drill bit, tap and installation tool.

    Has anyone used such a set before to replace stripped threads? Looks pretty straight forward but any tips before starting drilling would be appreciated...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Hi, I am not a cyclist, but a friend who is directed me to a posting about helicoils.
    I am a motorcyclist and old motorcycle restorer and use threaded insert AKA helicoils all the time.

    Member crowriver asking for adivce on using these.

    Ok, unfamiliar with exactly what alloy may be used in bicycles, BUT any alloy will be softer than the
    helicoil thread maker or "tap". In many cases you do NOT need to use the oversize drill supplied,but I leave that up to the
    person doing the job, as he/she will be able to gauge the softness of the alloy themselves.

    BUT you will need a good quality tap die holder to grip the thread maker, you can get these on ebay, BUT make sure the jaws are BIG enough to accept the tap, or at least good mole grips/lockable
    pliers to hold it very firmly. Do NOT try to do the whole thread in one go, go in a few milklimeters, until you feel the steel bite into the alloy, then back out a tad and blow away or remove the swarf, then go in again. repeat as required, patience is the thing, you want it go in and cut cleanly and plumb to the job in hand, square on if you like.
    Inserts come in different lengths too, you don't always need an insert the whole length of the screw hole, again the person doing the job can gauge it for themselves. Do it slowly and calmly is best :) The job can usually be done dry, but if you wish lubricating the job with a wee bit of 3 in 1 or whatever won't harm. You want the tap to go in cleanly and square to the surface.
    Drive in the insert gently, you don't want it to stretch or skip a thread,so slowly.,if you feel too much resitance at any step , STOP, back out a wee bit and go back in gently.

    These inserts are great and will be stronger than the original thread. Indeed some folk I know install them even on "good" threads in alloy on any parts that need to come apart often or are under stress.

    I hope this helps

    "

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. crowriver
    Member

    Thanks, very helpful indeed!

    Funnily enough most of the YouTube vids on how to use helicoils are by motorbike owners or folk repairing two stroke engines or the like.

    The alloy in the frame does feel pretty soft as the stainless bolt seemed to strip the threads relatively easily. Of course I may have over tightened them thus fotcing too much torque onto the threads, but the BB has been creaking for a while so I'm guessing the threads were slowly going...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. giantsbrae
    Member

    Hi,I am an engineering fitter,and have used helicoils thousands of times,all advice in the above post is sound ,apart from the correct term is a tap wrench or the Scottish name is a dwang,not a die holder,a die is is used for external threads,ie a bolt.
    Please do not use mole grips to tap the new thread,there is a chance you might not go in square,lubricate when drilling,though you will only be taking a small amount of metal away when drilling the new hole,lubricate when tapping the new thread,clean out,then put the helicoil in,then with a sharp reverse flick,break of the tail of helicoil thread,If you need a dwang,I can provide you with one,for the usual fee of one beer,hope this makes sense,good luck,and it is easy.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. crowriver
    Member

    Brilliant advice, thanks.

    I will get hold of a tap wrench, as in the fullness of time I may have to tap these threads out to a larger diameter, who knows?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  6. algo
    Member

    I have a tin of tapping lubricant if you want to borrow that - can deliver. Not got a decent wrench though any more I'm afraid.

    Just as an aside - I have used timecerts for stripped engine mounts before - slightly different from helicoils. I prefer them but giantsbrae may have a more informed opinion. I've also used helicoils successfully on some pretty heavy duty bits...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    @algo, thanks aye I might take you up on that offer, sounds like specialised stuff.

    I read up on the time certs, but the helicoils seemed simpler to install for someone with no engineering background? Anyway that's what I've gone for.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    I finally got round to fixing the Raleigh tandem BB shell today. It was quite a bit easier than I thought it would be. Took about 2.5 hours, with all the right tools to hand, a nice afternoon and having read up on the process and obtained valuable advice from folk on the forum here.

    This photo shows just how useful a really sturdy work stand is for fixing bikes.

    These are the tools I needed: not ,uch outlay, I had the drill already and the specialist bits were not expensive.

    I drilled out the set screw holes to a larger diameter, then cut new threads with the tap. Here are the freshly tapped holes in the BB shell. The drips you can see are tapping spray: thanks to algo of this parish for the loan of that!

    Once the new threads have been cleaned of swarf, it is really very simple to insert the helicoils with the special tool, then knock out the wee tangs with a punch. Here we see the helicoils in position.

    New stainless steel set screws now in place.

    BB shell and cranks fitted.

    Timing chain on, and we're all ready to ride!

    Very satisfying. Not only does the tandem ride like new, the annoying creaks and ticking noises have gone.

    Thanks folks for the advice and help.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. Snowy
    Member

    Good work!

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. Tulyar
    Member

    One detail which you should be aware of, is that there has to be enough 'meat' to take the insert. For some components the threads are in a position where any bigger hole could weaken the unit.

    I've had this with my Brompton, where the M5 bolts that hold the luggage block failed. It is 'just' possible with great care to run an M6 tap through with a hole drilled through into the steerer tube and lock in n M6 'stud'by tapping with a 'start' (taper) tap and leaving the final threads partly cut, so the 'stud' (use a bolt and cut off the head) will seize in the part-cut threads , and you use a thin lock nut on the stud to replace the bolt. On many 'serviceable' assemblies where threads may be regularly used the threads in a casting are often used with a stud, on which nuts are used, so that if the threads on the stud get damaged, it can be replaced.

    Posted 10 years ago #

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