At the unofficial opening we picked up some of the chuckies which felt plastic it was suggests they would get brighter as they aged??.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Gogar Station Road - Resurfacing & Cycle friendly improvements?
(108 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Drove it the other day and unfortunately I have to say I'm underwhelmed :-(
The single two way Lane for cars creates conflict and cars as mentioned above are forced to use the cycle Lane, this pretty much makes it the norm go encroach on the Lane and consequently devalues it. My distinct impression is that cars will be likely to swerve into the Lane without warning when they meet other vehicles. All round scary. Also the asl before the rail bridge heading south, what a complete waste of paint! The road is simply too narrow there to avoid encroaching on the feeder which is as always hugging the kerb and encouraging undertakes :-(
Were they to make this road one way for motor traffic the whole lot would make sense, but as it is imho as a cyclist the only improvement is the smooth surface, the rest just looks like an accident waiting to happen, as a driver, hard to know how to drive considerately there, there simply isn't space for even a small vehicle without driving on the cycle lanes which I don't like doing.
Overall impression, what a dangerous waste of money, sorry :-(Posted 8 years ago # -
as a driver, hard to know how to drive considerately there,
Does that not make you drive more carefully and attentively?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Nope I'm endeavouring to drive carefully and attentively anyway, and those that aren't I think will just be angrier and less predictable :-/
Posted 8 years ago # -
Were they to make this road one way for motor traffic...
.. I think that traffic would then hurtle along at 70mph and charge round the blind corners, "knowing" full well that "nothing" will be coming the other way to slow down for
Posted 8 years ago # -
I drove it a couple of weeks back too and hovered between driving in the "car lane" and driving over the bike lane.
There weren't many other cars but it did seem that speeds were lower than usual. This was early days though and regular drivers will no doubt settle into some kind of routine.
I guess only the regular cyclists (or drivers) will be able to tell us if speeds are down and if it feels safer, and perhaps even if it is safer.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Whereas now they will ignore the cycle lanes and tuck in to the kerb because even the idiots hesitate to drive into oncoming traffic on a blind corner with a closing speed over 60mph, making the nicely painted lanes worthless and reinforcing in the drivers mind the idea that cycle lanes could/should be ignored :-(
Sorry, I wanted to like it, but in it's present form it's diabolical imo.Posted 8 years ago # -
I must admit, I have been down there twice, and on each occasion, every single car coming in the opposite direction was driving in the cycle lane.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@ Smudge
I understand what you saying and can't disagree because I haven't been there yet.
There is a 'rule of thumb' that says it takes 3 months for traffic to 'return to normal' after such a closure, so time will tell - or not.
My solution would be a couple of bollards so no through road for motor vehicles at all!
Cars are allowed in these cycle lanes - I assume in most places they have to if there is another vehicle coming the other way.
I'm not sure about "even the idiots hesitate to drive into oncoming traffic on a blind corner with a closing speed over 60mph"!
Though one point is that 'previously' that could be more like 100mph.
If speeds have come down significantly (there are anecdotal reports) - in spite of nice new tarmac' - that is an achievement/success.
No doubt there are drivers who have become "angrier". Perhaps best if they are not driving at all (easier said than dealt with!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
@smudge - I understand the scepticism - we had quite a bit of debate about what the best layout would be and what could politically be achieved. I think what is being trialled is a good outcome but accept that isn't shared by everyone (& I have had a bruising time on twitter about it)
The problem was always poor surface and aggressive traffic. Dealing with only one of these is bearable whereas having both was scary and nobody wanted to go through another winter with it in the state it was. (Obviously having neither would be idyllic).
Given that 2 cars passing each other will need to use the full width of road to pass & you get the big scrap/chicken farm lorries on it, the options are limited.
Putting just the centre line back would have encouraged speeding.
Chicanes / speed bumps bring a new breed of conflict onto the road.The current arrangement makes it very clear to expect cyclists & that they belong on the road. The element of uncertainty you highlight could/should reduce speeds.
I don't mind cars in the cycle lane as long as they give me a wider pass and at slower speed.Other options are available (e.g. deadend/ 1way) but I don't think politically acceptable just now (remembering that the Garden District potentially in-filling the land between GSR & bypass).
The resurfacing cost a sizeable chunk of money and that alone would have made it better for cycling. The line marking / red chips is a pretty minimal cost within the bigger project.
As @chdot says - time will tell - CEC will be monitoring the situation so we will have some data to check the impact in due course.
I'm keeping an open mind.
Posted 8 years ago # -
As a daily user of the road on a bike, I like the new layout. It's not finished (there's still a bike lane to go in on the uphill past the entrance to the scrap yard), and there are some road markings missing. I think there's also an advisory sign in the making along the lines of 'cars can use the bike lane if necessary'
I like that I can ride on the outside edge of the bike lane and claim the space I need on the road. I like that the absent centre line seems to encourage cars to give me more room. I like that they seem to be doing more slowly than they used to. I like the new signage that makes it clear to expect bikes.
To HCs point, though, the main thing is that now I'm not having to deal with traffic and a dreadful surface. That's what I like most of all
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Chdot, yup understood, the difference ref closing speeds is previously they were closing but on separate sides of the road, so it felt relatively safe, now we will have cyclists expecting the cycle Lane to offer some protection only to find that either they are completely disregarded or that cars will swerve into them at random.
All that said I'll be delighted if I'm proven wrong once it has become normal for people.
I can only suggest you ride it or drive it at your earliest convenience, then I'd be interested to hear your impressions :-)Posted 8 years ago # -
@Hankchief & Greenroofer, interesting info thanks, certainly the surface improvement is welcome :-)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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Lol, as it says "not all roads will be suitable
" ;-)
Oh I do wish I could wave a wand and create the smooth wide flowing cyclepaths I see on large parts of the continent, that road would be a prime candidate for segregation! Hey ho, back to the horrors of UK road budget reality!Posted 8 years ago # -
"that road would be a prime candidate for segregation!"
But only as a one-way for motors.
Posted 8 years ago # -
They're resurfacing Morningside Road at the moment, too. Morningsider mentioned at the bike breakfast today that the asphalt base is so smooth that going up the hill you realise just how much energy you were wasting on cratered tarmac before.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I posted last week that I'd ventured down this a couple of times and think it is mad awesome based on the small sample size.
Having a cycle lane which people have to drive in to pass each other is vanilla continental design. There is no way of painting the road such that cyclists won't physically be in the way when two cars meet, so setting it up with a default road presence for cyclists is a smart move.
Consider the parallel options for death pinch islands. On the way to Penicuik the cycle lane disappears at the pinch point even though the cyclist is still physically occupying that space. In Dunbar, the cycle lanes get massive so it's obvious that you have to drive into the bit which is "for cyclists" (and again, the cyclist is in the same place either way).
Smart design imo.
I only previously attempted riding to RBS once (the road naturally connects our house in Currie with some possible commuting options) as it was just horrific. I obviously use it as a rat run to the airport in the car myself so contribute to this on either side. If it was one way for cars I should think people would drive at least 20-30mph faster.
I could envision regularly cycling the road in its current state after avoiding it for years, can't really say fairer than that.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The bit that really worried me about the old GSR was that 90% of my attention was spent on just staying on the bike, and I could spare very little for monitoring what was going on around me. The surface was so bad that without constant adjustment, you'd have put a wheel down one of the cavernous potholes and could easily come off into a stream of traffic. On one occasion in the dark I swerved to avoid a hole and got whipped across the face by a low hanging branch. It truly was not a pleasant riding experience.
From that viewpoint the new surface alone definitely makes things safer, imho. I ride GSR most days and I certainly notice more cars hanging back at the bends until they can see more clearly what's coming the other way. Just as importantly, I can now pay much more attention to what's going on around me.
I think average speeds have probably reduced, on balance. Sadly I think the criticism that a 1-way road would raise speeds again is probably true. But, if the flip side is that the cars would no longer need to swerve in and out of cycle lanes, would a 5-10 mph increase in car speeds matter so much? (EDIT: I would include some traffic speed calming measures in there)
If I had a free hand then I think now I'd opt for conversion of the pavement and the cycle lanes into a nice 3m wide bidirectional shared use path. Might be politically more palatable than making it one-way, but would of course require a bit more engineering, so that ship has probably sailed.
But can I just re-iterate 'well done' to those who campaigned to fix it :-)
Posted 8 years ago # -
I have finally written up the story of what it took to get GSR 'sorted'.
http://pedalonparliament.org/gogar-station-road-how-to-fix-a-road-in-273-emails/
It is quite long but then so was the campaign.
The short version is don't give up until it is sorted :)
Posted 8 years ago # -
"The short version is don't give up until it is sorted"
Indeed!
I'll read long version later...
Posted 8 years ago # -
I rode down it for the first time on Monday and had a driver hang back behind me even when she could have safely passed- Thanked her at the lights and let her go past.
Definitely a better experience, mainly due to the smooth surface. A definite success and hopefully the model for the likes of Lochend Road.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Given the number of miles that Google streetview drivers cover in the course of their employment you would think that they would be aware of the traffic laws. However a quick attempt to see the previous state of GSR on streetview reveals this isn't the case.
Road Closed, where next?
Ah I know I'll ignore the road sign.Nothing evil?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
Jonny Seaton (@BalernoDad) tweeted at 8:30am - 26 May 15:#EdinburghCouncil 2 cycle lanes on a busy windey road (Gogar Station Road) #dangerous
http://pic.twitter.com/t1fTZm7X10 (
https://twitter.com/BalernoDad/status/603101005258072064?s=17)
"
and related tweets.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I can have a word with this dad and explain to him the unique and less dangerous nature of this route, maybe even pointing out the lack of white line?
Posted 8 years ago # -
I had a word with local connection but consensus is the outside world is not processed very empirically and decisions are made large on some internal mechanism unconnected to a reality that on this issue cyclists would see as the norm. So no point in pointing out the improved safety of the road as would not be computed that way by the eye of the beholder?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cycled down and up GSR from the canal to the hideous A8 path yesterday on the way to the deliciously surreal Tuly Hill nelothic site opposite McDonalds at the Newbridge M9 junction.
A wide-turning chicken lorry seems to have begun the demolition of the infrastructure already;
Posted 7 years ago # -
That sign has been showing a lack of situational awareness for some months. I tweeted it to the council shortly after it drove into a car or chicken lorry. I will resurrect the thread on Twitter.
Posted 7 years ago # -
iwrats snaps I cannot see
Posted 7 years ago #
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