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"Meadows campaigners call for 15-day limit on events"

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Major events lasting more than a fortnight should be banned from the Meadows, campaigners have claimed, in a bid to protect the area from long-term damage.

    Locals have long held concerns that the 25-acre parkland is over-used for large-scale tented activities and shows, particularly during the festival.

    And despite several events – including the Foodies Festival and Moonwalk – being relocated to Inverleith Park in recent years, the Friends of the Meadows and Bruntsfield Links (FOMBL) believes more needs to be done.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/what-s-on/edinburgh-festival/meadows-campaigners-call-for-15-day-limit-on-events-1-3505469

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. Dave
    Member

    I feel I should write to the council to object to FOMBL's undemocratic attempt to restrict my enjoyment of events held in our open spaces, and insist these calls are dismissed.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. neddie
    Member

    I wish FOMBL would spend their energies campaigning to God for a 15 day limit on rain & wind in the Meadows.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I haven't been to a fifteen day event since the early nineties.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. Nelly
    Member

    Dave

    Agreed. I live really close to the meadows, quite close to all the action at George Square as well.....and we all love it.

    Parks serve any number of purposes, and one persons leisure activity and definition of the meadows "purpose" may be very different from others.

    I wonder if this group simply wants a grassland where we only walk across the predefined paths?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. SRD
    Moderator

    The issue with these events is not so much that they occupy the space, but that in doing so, they damage it. This might not be a big issue, but they pay a pittance to use this land (which - in principle at least - we all own). If they had to book land or theatres - as eg the ladyboys do elsewhere - they would be paying a lot more. It seems wrong that they get away with it, while the public benefits little.

    One reason why I support Gavin Corbett's call for the council to be more accountable in how it manages the 'common good': http://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/blog/common-good/

    I supported the FOMBL petition as part of MCC, not so much for the time limit, but because it also calls for the payment of market prices, and how the income is used.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. crowriver
    Member

    I agree with SRD. Whilst I do not live in the vicinity of the Meadows and am thus largely unaffected by festival shows/events there, there's no doubt the park is damaged as a result of such usage and it's a fair bet event organisers are getting a much cheaper deal than they could manage elsewhere in the city.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. Dave
    Member

    If we charged more to use the land, that would raise ticket prices as this cost was passed back to the public.

    I can see the argument that the majority (taxpayers losing out on the rent) should not have to subsidise the minority (who are attending), but it's far too simplistic to argue that we should charge commercial rents for that reason.

    All council tax payers are paying for the general upkeep of the Meadows when only a fraction of them have practical access to it. Why don't we charge people going to the Meadows for reasons other than to attend an event a balancing fee?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. SRD
    Moderator


    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. SRD
    Moderator

    "If we charged more to use the land, that would raise ticket prices as this cost was passed back to the public."

    Do they charge less for tickets in Edinburgh because they get the venue dirt cheap?

    "All council tax payers are paying for the general upkeep of the Meadows when only a fraction of them have practical access to it. "

    All taxpayers pay for use of all parks, but only a few of those are regularly rented out.

    "it's far too simplistic to argue that we should charge commercial rents for that reason."

    why?

    "Why don't we charge people going to the Meadows for reasons other than to attend an event a balancing fee?"

    and you expect us to take your arguments seriously?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. Nelly
    Member

    If CEC can't give the ladyboys a proper venue for their tent, they will take it elsewhere, cue many EEN style comments about the lack of foresight/driving business away etc.

    There does need to be a balance though. Let's see what the surface is like later in the year when we might have a better idea if the drainage works have been a success.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. SRD
    Moderator

    Why can't the tent go opposite Ocean Terminal?

    I'm sure we could think of many other possible venues.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. Nelly
    Member

    "Why can't the tent go opposite Ocean Terminal?"

    Don't know, but if pressed I would guess its not central enough for them?

    If I ran that company I would want it in George Sq or The Meadows, simply to ensure bums on seats.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    what sorts of venues do they use in Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham, London?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. cc
    Member

    Seriously, I think Edinburgh currently has enough other venues and shows going on to survive quite well without tents in the Meadows.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. steveo
    Member

    I don't really think it does, not in August.

    I largely agree with Dave, there are people who behave as though the Meadows are an SSI or a National Park. Its a bit of grassland, a drained swamp, in the centre of a city.

    Perhaps attractions should be charged more, even just a levy to repair the damage on top of the nominal rent. But this would be passed on to users some of whom other wise get no use from this or any other of Edinburgh's parks.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    "a drained swamp, in the centre of a city"

    "
    This was once the site of the wind-swept Borough-Loch, which was part of the historic old Borough Muir and one of the main water supplies for Edinburgh's Old Town.

    As the years passed, the loch took three names: the Borough Loch; the South Loch to draw the distinction with the North Loch, now occupied by the railway line at the foot of the Castle Rock in Princes Street Gardens; then Stration's Loch after John Stration, who unsuccessfully attempted to drain it and the surrounding marshlands in 1658.

    In the olden days the loch was inevitably used for washing animals and, when no one was looking, a depository for rubbish of all kinds, in spite of it being a water supply and dumping strictly forbidden.

    "

    http://www.fombl.org.uk/hist.html

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    I don't think we should be overly precious about turf, but these green spaces in the middle of the city are really valuable, and the way the city allows them to be used at present doesn't always recognize that.

    I resent commercial use of public space with little return to the 'owners'. The meadows festival, cricket, football, barbecues I am all in favour of. I just think that the commercial events should subsidize those activities, and others.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. Dave
    Member

    I get nothing from cricket on the meadows except the annoyance that a tiny minority of people have conspired to fence off a bunch of "my" park for their exclusive use ;-)

    It doesn't get me worked up, but neither does subsidising public entertainment by making the space available for events at less than commercial land rents.

    To put it another way: why is it OK for the council to spend hard cash funding or subsidising events (I haven't done much of a search, but £1.3m pa on some stuff at xmas came up immediately on Google) whereas doing so "in lieu" with a cheap rent of the Meadows is unacceptable?

    Are FOMBLE objecting to the *type* of events being held under the guise of their length, one wonders? Not many very middle class events would last longer than a few days... :P

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. SRD
    Moderator

    I'm sure the FOMBLs are influenced by middle class snobbism, but I don't see that it invalidates their objection to how green spaces in the city centre are used.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. steveo
    Member

    Rebase the question, do you think the same vociferous complaints would be raised if it was Saughton park that was to be effectively closed for a commercial event?

    The meadows are right beside Bruntsfield Links and not that far from Holyrood Park so its not as though they represent the only green space for miles.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. SRD
    Moderator

    Did any of you reply to the council's consultation?

    I did. And I said that I would be happy to have parks nearer to me and that my family uses more considered as venues for such events IF the proceeds of such events were invested in the parks - better play infra, toilets etc.

    If this petition was raised by someone other than FOMBL would you all be reacting like this?

    Yes, the meadows are not the only green space in central Edinburgh, but along with those other spaces they are constitutive of what makes Edinburgh a distinctive and liveable city.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. steveo
    Member

    If this petition was raised by someone other than FOMBL would you all be reacting like this?

    I would...

    Yes, the meadows are not the only green space in central Edinburgh, but along with those other spaces they are constitutive of what makes Edinburgh a distinctive and liveable city.

    As do events in those green spaces even if they're not what some would consider appropriate or too long.

    Not everyone uses the space in the same way; you or I may enjoy playing in the park with kids or relaxing in the relative peace. Some may like running round these parks whilst others might only use them when they're visiting an event or travelling fairground.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. Nelly
    Member

    To come back to a point I made yesterday, If this was just all about 'putting up a tent somewhere' then we could all think of plenty options

    e.g. The running track behind the WHEC appears to be completely unused whenever I pass on the canal, so why not there?

    It is pretty obvious that the promoter wants somewhere pretty close to 'Fringe Central' and the council economic development people (if its them) are happy to comply. Clearly the public like it also, otherwise the Ladyboys would close down / move on.

    While we can all argue about useage of the Meadows, one thing we can agree is that it is used in many diverse ways (people practicing slacklines, walkers, cyclists, cricketers, croquet, playparks, tennis BBQs, Fringe, Meadows Festival, POP to name a few)

    To put barriers in the way of an event one group doesnt like simply opens the door to other objections. I could take issue witht he Meadows Festival (I dont) but I am not a fan of the shows/funfairs, they seem to attract some questionable people (in my opinion).

    But thats the point, my opinion is obviously mine and mine only - and many other people may like events I dont attend / approve of.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. SRD
    Moderator

    So no one else here except Crowriver and myself agree with the points made in Gavin Corbett's blog?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    I'd like to see the tennis courts there free.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    Meanwhile elsewhere in town -

    "

    A SCRAP has broken out between two of the Capital’s flagship hotels over ambitious plans for al fresco dining in the heart of the West End.

    Bosses at the Rutland Hotel want to create a major new outdoor seating area – but saw original plans for a timber canopy enclosure savaged by the neighbouring Caledonian Hotel.

    It feared the structure would block access to the landmark Caley building, damage its views of Princes Street and become a magnet for antisocial behaviour.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hotel-chiefs-fury-at-rutland-outdoor-seating-bid-1-3506536

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. steveo
    Member

    So no one else here except Crowriver and myself agree with the points made in Gavin Corbett's blog?

    I presume you're referring to this?

    And, finally, how can citizens of Edinburgh be sure that common good is being used to best effect? Are we charging commercial users of land proper commercial rents?

    If so then no not really. Should the council extract more money from the Lady Boys? Maybe. But ultimately who pays this extra? It won't be the promoters, as Dave said the extra cost will be passed on to punters. Some of these punters may never use any other parks or green space in the city so this is the only way they get any value from the not inconsiderable amount of money used to keep the parks in good condition.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  29. crowriver
    Member

    Speaking of Holyrood Park, the flattish grassy area there near Holyrood palace is regularly covered in marquees etc. for various events, some of them commercial, some for charidee, some for "national pride" or sport. Not during the Fringe, not the Ladyboys, not even the Council but rather Historic Scotland. I've no real problem with this except the grass is often left in a right state afterwards.

    At least Arthur's Seat, the crags etc. are left generally unspoilt.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  30. SRD
    Moderator

    "the extra cost will be passed on to punters."

    From their website:

    edinburgh - adult tickets £24-£26
    kirkaldy - £25
    glasgow £23
    stirling £23.50 and £22.50
    newcastle - £24-£32
    Leeds - £26-£34

    Several of these are in town squares. maybe festival square is the obvious location they should be going for.

    Posted 10 years ago #

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