So we are now on to why it's better for drivers to have all-day buslanes!
Even MORE reasons to object and send emails to councillors on the Transport committee!
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Bus lanes to change
(321 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Bus Lane A702 Earl Grey St by LaidBackBikes, on FlickrNow if we allowed cars to use this A702 lane would that be good or bad for them? Maybe this one is to stay permanent but if the principal of part time bus lanes encourages drivers' 'right to roam' then the next time we see this Google map shot we may have a few cars on it - so two lanes of cars heading for A702
As cars set off they then have to merge - which is more or less what happens as buses squeeze to pull in to bus stops at the moment. Of course when cars and buses mix, the less 'aware' driver will find him or herself stuck between buses at bus stops. This fate is normally reserved for cyclists of course but we can always check over our shoulder and possibly get past the bus blockage. In what way will this mixing of two speed traffic help traffic flow? Not one bit.
Safety is the other factor here as cars jostle for pole positionBut then of course if they just decided to get rid of the A702 bus lane then we could have cycle ways segregated for both A702 and A700... ?
This bus lane is not exactly easy for less experienced cyclists to enter. In fact the whole thing is confused with no bike symbol appearing on the tarmac - other than on the A700 ASLs.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Is that Tollcross from the laidback balloon? Groovy.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@LB
Hmmm
Good points!
Presumably it's on the p/t list.
I'll let you check...
Posted 9 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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LB is tolerated by the NMS at the Museum of Flight one day a year - so you never know!
:-)
Posted 9 years ago # -
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Cycling Edinburgh (@CyclingEdin)
24/02/2015 22:39
Typical congestion caused by all-day #buslanes (3:30 today)@LAHinds @AndrewDBurns @Edinburgh_CC @CityCentreLeith pic.twitter.com/RS6uWIYTKT
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Posted 9 years ago # -
This is good -
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John Lauder, national director of sustainable transport group Sustrans Scotland, said opening up more bus lanes to cars would increase traffic congestion.
He said: “We strongly urge the council to reconsider its bus lane proposals. As the lanes are shared with cyclists, we would much prefer if the council would investigate the possibility of making them all-day or 24/7 instead of peak-time only.
“The council is taking forward many commendable transport proposals, such as the introduction of 20mph speed limits. Therefore, it is particularly surprising and frustrating that they should propose such a retrograde action.
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Nice photo too.
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/cyclists-slam-bus-lane-changes-1-3703701
I won't be reading the comments
Posted 9 years ago # -
Plenty room for a segregated cyclelane and a bus lane.
Posted 9 years ago # -
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The figures were blasted as “staggering, extraordinary and outrageous” by the AA, and driving groups said the number of motorists being caught should be decreasing.
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Posted 9 years ago # -
Incidentally, is there any point in the bus lanes at Haymarket Terrace? They are full of parked cars every single day during their operating hours.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Good to see the EEN photo editor (if they still have one) has a sense of humour. How could anyone claim that they weren't warned that Little France Drive was bus only and that there was camera enforcement.
Posted 9 years ago # -
If the signs still aren't clear enough then maybe they could rig up a system where an electronic device updates the drivers Facebook when they get close to a bus lane? They would definitely see it then.
Posted 9 years ago # -
While I agree with some of what Neil Greig is trying to say I'm not sure why he is comparing Edinburgh with Glasgow. An average camera in Glasgow is catching about 2.5 times as many drivers as Edinburgh ones so why does he expect Edinburgh's cameras capture rate to fall in line with Glasgow's?.
Posted 9 years ago # -
56 successful appeals!
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Edinburgh’s eight bus lane cameras issued 25,882 fines in 2014.
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Posted 9 years ago # -
I know there is a car 'in the way' but I suspect drivers keep out of the bus lane even on Sat and Sun.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Presumably this (near the Zoo) isn't in operation on a Sunday?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Fantastic piece of driving by the Volvo up ahead in the Zoo shot. That really gives me confidence that he is going to Give Way as he/she needlesly sits on the wrong side of the road to turn right .
Posted 9 years ago # -
Nope, St Johns Road bus lane only in operation at rush hour.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So drivers are either 'very confused' or don't see the point in two lanes of traffic racing towards the narrow section(?)
Posted 9 years ago # -
In my experience Drum Brae South (downhill Bus Lane above) is more likely to have vehicles in it outside of the operating hours than Corstorphine / St John's / Glasgow Roads.
Don't know whether that is because of it being a short stretch & downhill or because of the likelihood of right turning vehicles blocking the outside lane further down.
Posted 9 years ago # -
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Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
24/03/2015 20:09
Great @GlasgowCC #buslane 777 decision: 7am-7pm,7dayshttp://www.glasgow.gov.uk/councillorsandcommittees/viewDoc.asp?c=e%97%9Dj%96iy%8B
c.f. @Edinburgh_CC cuts :(
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Posted 9 years ago # -
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Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
24/03/2015 20:42
Better link - item 10http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/councillorsandcommittees/submissiondocuments.asp?submissionid=73931
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Posted 9 years ago # -
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3.12 The Council accepts that during the trials there will be some loss of amenity for cyclists, as there will be an increased level of interaction with general traffic within bus lanes
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http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/47253/item_73_-_bus_lane_network_review
Posted 9 years ago # -
"3.8 The trial to change all day bus lanes into peak periods bus lanes will replicate the road conditions that are currently experienced by cyclists in the existing peak periods bus lane corridors (approximately 60% of the bus lane network)."
So if it's crap on 60% of the existing bus lanes, it's of no consequence just to make it crap on the remaining 40%. Sometimes I hate this city.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So in response to 151 different objections, they are putting aside all the concerns and doing it anyway... <sigh>
I had a bit of a read of the objections - don't have time to read them all... This was one of my favorites
'What evidence was used to determine that part time is the right answer'?It must be stressed that the ETROs' proposals are not permanent but relate to trials that will allow data to be collected to assess the impact of the proposals.
Before and after surveys will be undertaken to measure bus journey times, traffic volumes (including changes in lane activity and modal shift), traffic speeds, collision data, cycling surveys, pedestrian surveys, air quality analysis, and legal/illegal parking in bus lanes.So that's alright then. Rather than checking what would work best by checking with users before changing anything (as Glasgow did), we just have to put up with it because it is a trial and not permanent. <big sigh>
How about we shut the Bypass for a year, you know, just as a trial to see if it's a good idea? Don't worry we'll monitor lots of stuff.
Posted 9 years ago # -
7.1 The bus lane trial will affect cyclists, by reducing the amenity provided by bus lanes. SPOKES have been consulted with regard to the design of some of the before and after surveys. SPOKES will be consulted, regarding any proposals to permanently make all-day bus lanes into peak periods bus lanes.
'Consulted' in the context of buses and trams seems to be mostly shorthand for 'asked for its valuable advice which we will ignore completely after a period of our choosing'.
I like how Appendix 3 s1 bluntly says "Yes, we know." in the context of reducing amenity to cyclists.
allowing general traffic to use bus lanes in interpeak periods is unlikely to introduce any significant disbenefit to buses or advantage to general traffic (App3 s4)
which begs the question why this is being done at all. Oh, I forgot, the poor motorists are getting confused.
The trials will be monitored throughout their operation and, if at any stage serious concerns regarding safety or impact on bus or tram operations emerge, they can be abandoned at short notice. (App3 s5)
but cyclists can simply man up and deal with things themselves.
I would also suggest that Mr Bury at CEC buys a better permanent black marker pen in order to censor people's names effectively.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I eventually found my objection, but they got my postcode wrong. I like the way that they addressed my concern about it not aligning with council policy by saying (in a very convoluted way) "You're right, it doesn't. Too bad.".
Posted 9 years ago # -
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Adam McVey (@adamrmcvey)
29/05/2015 13:19
We'd have to accept we're not there yet but our direction of travel (excuse the pun) is towards towns like these. https://twitter.com/chris_boardman/status/604034740606357504"
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Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
27/05/2015 21:16
Preview p3 from Spokes summer bulletin @edfoc @FamiliesEdinbur @greenerleith @CyclingEdin @LivingStreetsEd @roadcchttp://pic.twitter.com/UXEkyIkuWp
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Cycling Edinburgh (@CyclingEdin)
30/05/2015 10:48
@adamrmcvey so you'll abandon bus lane plans? "loss of amenity for cyclists"http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13321&page=5#post-189594
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Adam McVey (@adamrmcvey)
30/05/2015 18:20
@CyclingEdin @Chris_Boardman @SpokesLothian I wouldn't characterise standardisation of operation times that way."
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Cycling Edinburgh (@CyclingEdin)
30/05/2015 18:29
@adamrmcvey BUT that's what @Edinburgh_CC report says!!! So you'll be voting against?@Chris_Boardman @SpokesLothian @LAHinds @AndrewDBurns
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Adam McVey (@adamrmcvey)
30/05/2015 18:48
@CyclingEdin @Edinburgh_CC @Chris_Boardman @SpokesLothian its your characterisation I'm afraid I disagree with."
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Cycling Edinburgh (@CyclingEdin)
30/05/2015 18:52
@adamrmcvey "characterisation"? That's a quote from committee reporthttp://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13321&page=5#post-189594
@Edinburgh_CC @Chris_Boardman @SpokesLothian
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Posted 9 years ago # -
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Rangifer & Stephan (@RangiRevo)
30/05/2015 19:01
@adamrmcvey For us slower people bus lane often only protection @CyclingEdin @AndrewDBurns @Chris_Boardman @LAHinds @SpokesLothianRangifer & Stephan (@RangiRevo)
30/05/2015 19:07
@adamrmcvey Experiment should try make it better not worse ➡ full-time @CyclingEdin @AndrewDBurns @Chris_Boardman @LAHinds @SpokesLothianRangifer & Stephan (@RangiRevo)
30/05/2015 19:09
@adamrmcvey I get near hits in part-time bus lane daily @CyclingEdin @AndrewDBurns @Chris_Boardman @LAHinds @SpokesLothianRangifer & Stephan (@RangiRevo)
30/05/2015 19:13
@adamrmcvey Also I'm always amazed how slow buses as bus lanes blocked @CyclingEdin @AndrewDBurns @Chris_Boardman @LAHinds @SpokesLothianRangifer & Stephan (@RangiRevo)
30/05/2015 19:15
@adamrmcvey You should try measures to make buses faster&more efficient @CyclingEdin @AndrewDBurns @Chris_Boardman @LAHinds @SpokesLothian"
Posted 9 years ago #
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