CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
On a related note -
Latest missive from Jim Eadie on "Active Travel" -
"
Lawrence Shackman of Transport Scotland ensured me that the bus lane facilities on the B800 will be able to be used by cyclists. Wherever possible, Transport Scotland has integrated bus lanes to ensure good connectivity with the existing cycle facilities.
"
That is an accurate quote from a paper letter, I'm not sure what it really means.
I noticed a few buslane signs today had been replaced with similar ones but including a white motorcycle on the blue panel. My eye was drawn to it as there was a big white bit of plastic over the motor cycle which will obviously be removed on day 1 of the new regime trial.
You kinda think they would have taken the George Street "it's temporary" approach to this and added the motorcycles to the existing signs with a sticky addition, rather than ordering all new signs...
Contains most of the same words as last week's story.
No sign of any motorbikes in the SJR bus lane this morning but did have 2 Private Hire saloon cars following me.
I tweeted Lesley about this and she asked for their numbers to report them - sadly I didn't take a note but will do from now on.
SPOKES are requesting the following:
- any instances of cyclists being cut up by car drivers using the bus lanes during non-peak hours should be reported to them and to CEC.
If Edinburgh council have decided to allow HGVS in the bus lane does this mean they will build cycle lanes on the A71/Gorgie road in to Edinburgh where there used to be a bus lane to use? A problem will be HGVs will now be in the left lane to let cars past.
"
Hi...am a private hire taxi driver.....is it not about time that the council let us use the green-ways an bus-lanes...after all we pay our licences to them to. We do the same Job as the black cabs and would make more sense for the customers to have the same services. .
"
Well at least one of them knows they are not supposed to be in bus lane!
"
u're going to open up the bus lanes to other traffic can you at least make sure that no-one parks in them? The main reason why I never use the bus lanes when it is allowed to do so is that they are generally filled with parked cars and you need to keep crossing back and forth to the other lanes to get past them. OK when theres not a lot of traffic but incredibly annoying when there is.
"
"
What a backward city this is - even Glasgow is ahead of us with their 7/7/7 bus lanes.
Poor Auld Reekie has to be choked back by pandering to all the single-occupant motor cars - a truly 20th Century transport system.
"
So from comments above it's obvious that it's not just 'us' who think it's not a great idea - especially (as we already know) it's just because of this -
"
The council said that since the 1990s, it had invested heavily in bus lanes, which improve journey reliability and save time for buses, encouraging people to travel by bus rather than car.
However, following the introduction of bus lane camera enforcement in 2012, it was found that many drivers were confused over operating hours of bus lanes in the city.
"
My fave comment from the above article:
"Hmmm Lets see......
DasArab wrote on Monday; "Wont make a blind bit of difference. 90% of motorists in Edinburgh cant/dont/wont read the signs at the moment and will still drive in the bus lane when they are not supposed to and wont drive in it when they can."
Its not Embra council/SNP's fault that all these highly trained drivers cant Read."
Exactly!
Just hope CEC doesn't put 'a lot of effort' into 'educating' drivers (to cover-up council's embarrassment).
This seems to be a very hard thing for a lot of drivers to do but can't they look and pay attention. Surely the driving test still includes having to do this.
Well, if you are the first driver to take advantage of the available bus lane, you are going to end up undertaking the slow moving traffic in the other lane (this happens a lot on the Slateford Road, where the lanes have been part time all along). This is probably illegal, dangerous, and creates resentment leading to other drivers not letting the undertaking driver back into the busy lane when they need to (for example to pass a stopped bus). So, can understand why most drivers don't do this.
Certainly not illegal (HC Rule 163 includes - stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left).
A lot of the times the main reason I won't use a bus lane (while driving, and while it's legal to do so) is either because there are cars parked in it, or as Charlethepar suggests, if you've got to turn right ahead etc. then getting back into the right hand queue can be a pain.
Of course there's also Rule 160 - keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise, which in theory means if the bus lane is clear, and it's at a time when it's open, you're breaking the HC by staying in the right hand lane (though that's a 'should' rather than 'must' so to stay in the right isn't illegal, just bad form).
@WC
As far as I know, HC Rule 163 only applies if there are moving queues of traffic in both lanes. That is why it would be a grey area whether undertaking a queue in an empty bus lane was or was not illegal.
Well even one car is 'traffic', so I don't see why Rule 163 wouldn't apply. At what point does a number of cars become a 'queue'?
Hmmmm, A line of waiting people or vehicles.
You may be right actually. A single car skipping into the bus lane wouldn't be a queue... Whereas 'overtaking on the left' can only be done if the vehicle on the right is indicating to turn right.
The more I think about it the more I think you're right. It could only be a queue if a number of cars were waiting, and by definition that would need a first car to move in, and that driver would be 'overtaking on the left', rather than in a slow moving queue. And I guess the drivers sitting on the right in contravention of 160 isn't an excuse.
@WC - bit of a bad idea to 'simplify' the rules then!!
Just hope it's all 'didn't seem to make any difference' rather than 'we told you something nasty would happen'.
My biggest fear was Leith Street, which is untestable due to the current contra-flow system!
"Just hope it's all 'didn't seem to make any difference' rather than 'we told you something nasty would happen'."
Couldn't agree more.
bit of a bad idea to 'simplify' the rules then!!
if only anyone at the council had a fundamental grasp on the HWC, just as well none of them drive...
This was last Friday, but I assume layout is same as pic above, plus still no ped crossing -
There is really no grey area aboout 'undertaking in a bus lane' otherwise how could buses ever use them to expedite their journeys?. If there is a stopped/slow moving line of traffic in the outside lane and for whatever reason they are choosing not to use the inside lane then it is perfectly OK to drive normally in the L/H lane. Is anyone suggesting that if you are in a left turn only lane at a junction with a R/H lane full that you can't use the L/H lane to approach the junction tio turn left? Why are we trying to make things so difficult.
"... otherwise how could buses ever use them to expedite their journeys?"
I suspect (will have to check) that there is specific provision for vehicles that are permitted to use bus lanes during operational times.
"Is anyone suggesting that if you are in a left turn only lane at a junction with a R/H lane full that you can't use the L/H lane to approach the junction tio turn left?"
Again I suspect there's a provision for that, will again have a look.
"Why are we trying to make things so difficult."
Not sure that's what anyone is trying to do, but rather just trying to understand what the actual legal position is.
As I understand it, there is no specific law as such, just the offences of careless or dangerous driving.
Personally, I think someone bombing it up an off-duty bus lane at 40mph (in a 40 zone) when the right hand lane is near stationary would be seen by the average polis officer and sheriff as acting carelessly.
However, as with all such things, only a case in court can give a definitive answer.
"stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left"
I would take that to mean that you can pass a queue using the bus lane if you are already in the bus lane before the queue forms. There is no explicit mention of "you" being in a queue but there is an explicit requirement to stay in your lane so pulling out of the queue and zipping up the bus lane isn't allowed. It would also seem to exclude pulling back into the bus lane after passing a parked car.
"
We will only see the full benefit of the latest changes when more drivers are educated about when they can and can’t use the bus lanes.
In the meantime, those drivers who are in the know can enjoy almost clear lanes to themselves, safe in the knowledge that they are doing the right thing by using all of the road that is open to them.
"
A lot of the times the main reason I won't use a bus lane (while driving, and while it's legal to do so) is either because there are cars parked in it, or as Charlethepar suggests, if you've got to turn right ahead etc. then getting back into the right hand queue can be a pain.
My thoughts exactly. I work on the assumption that there will be cars parked in the bus lane at some point, even if I can't see them (on Comiston Road this is almost always the case). If there aren't cars, there'll be a bus.
Throw in my British conditioning that says it's wrong to jump queues, which is reinforced by the car marques of the people that tend to do it, and I'll tend to stay in the queue.
Well, it's five months in. How are those bus lanes shaping up?
Apart from being able to use my motorbike slightly more effectively than before, I haven't really noticed much of a difference. Same extent of car drivers taking liberties (e.g. the bottom of the Lanark Road, both directions, every day) during the times they shouldn't.
You must log in to post.
Cycling in Edinburgh Flickr group
Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin
posts