Canal-Meadows (STILL NOT finally!) « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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Canal-Meadows (STILL NOT finally!)

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Started 9 years ago by SRD
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SRD
Moderator

received today:

The City of Edinburgh Council is developing a new cycle route and improvements between the Union Canal and the Meadows via Home Street, Tarvit Street and Brougham Place. In addition, carriageway and footways will be resurfaced as part of this project on Home Street extending to Tollcross.

I attach a digital copy of the public consultation leaflet for the project which will be delivered locally tomorrow (Thursday 25th September). This leaflet provides detail on the plans we have proposed and a questionnaire for comment. [SRD: can't figure out a good way to post PDF; pm me if you want a copy]

The questionnaire is also available online for public and organisations to provide comment on and support for these proposals: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/DRKR7W8. The closing date the consultation is 24th October 2014.

As a stakeholder of the project I would be grateful for your input and encourage you to review the proposals and complete the online survey. These projects together provide an opportunity to transform the street environment and improve the area for all users, residents and businesses; as well as providing a new family cycle route linking two of the City’s main off-road paths.

A project page has been set-up on the Council website with some additional background information which can be accessed via Edinburgh.gov.uk/cycling. Please feel free to circulate this information and survey within your organisation or to any contacts you have who may be interested.

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20135/cycling_projects/1129/meadows_-_canal_ncn75

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

summary of proposal

ped crossing on home street moved to lochrin place; made into toucan.

bi-directional segregated cycle way on home street from toucan to tarvit street.

Tarvit street closed at King's junction.

toucan on melville drive relocated to tarvit street

bi-directional segregated cycle way along brougham place/ melville drive to toucan at entrance to NMW (dog-leg)

Posted 9 years ago #
steveo
Member

That seems largely positive!

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Yeah, within the constraints of the scheme, I think it's pretty good. Should improve pedestrian experience too.

But would be good if everyone could take a few minutes to respond to the survey - it's only 5 short questions.

Posted 9 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

Looks pretty good - my only gripe is that construction isn't due to start until early 2016!

Posted 9 years ago #
neddie
Member

Will they do ought about the horrendous cobbles on the towpath tho'?

Posted 9 years ago #
steveo
Member

Nothing, as I understand they're listed and I don't think they can tarmac.

Posted 9 years ago #
wingpig
Member

As with the Meadows-Innocent thing, if they could make the toucans accessible for people reaching them from the road in either direction by adding a top-of-Leamington-Walk-style slipslope it'd improve the permeability.

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

@wingpig that is exactly what is planned.

Posted 9 years ago #
KeepPedalling
Member

Looks a good step forward. I presume they will be closing Lonsdale Terrace to avoid conflict with the segregated cycle way?

Posted 9 years ago #
Chug
Member

Why do toucans (almost)always start from a pavement? The exception being Argyle Place.

The toucan at the end of Lochrin Place looks easy to use travelling westbound, but eastbound? You have to come up Lochrin Place, cross any traffic turning into LP (which isn't signalised as far as I can see), mount the pavement, and then use the toucan. Not great for a nervous cyclist combined with an impatient turning-in driver.

It looks like a similar set-up to the Toucan at the top of Leamington Terrace - which I still haven't worked out if I can legally use eastbound (coming up Leamington Terrace and crossing either to the Links path or south down Bruntsfield Place) and which requires a similar cross-the road-to-the-footway-across-the-front-of turning-traffic arrangement.

Note I'm not talking about the "hook" right turn that exists at Leamington Terrace, which I think is a great idea, although apparently sadly underused if my observations are representative.

Posted 9 years ago #
cc
Member

Thanks SRD. I've commented. I asked about people cycling on Gilmore Place - will there be signs directing them onto the new route? Will they be able to cycle across the junction into Tarvit Street? Also Leven Street (the main road from Bruntsfield) - will people be able to cycle down towards Tollcross then turn right into Tarvit Street?
I also asked if the segregated cycleway will be completely physically protected against those determined to park their vans/lorries/cars there, for instance while making a delivery.

Posted 9 years ago #
fimm
Member

Hangonaminute. Does that mean people are expected to use those horrible cobbles by the canal? I will never, ever go that way again, having tried it once.

I'm going to have to look at the map again.

People with children, have they tried those cobbles? Can they manage them?

Posted 9 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

Refer to the Consultation Leaflet for the plan.

It does seem largely positive (cobbles on south bank of canal excepting, but these can be fixed).

I would ahve a concern at the bit right outside the Kings Theatre where the new "milling area" pavement is being created. It's going to need more than a bit of paint there to demarcate the fact it's going to be a fairly busy cycle lane. Otherwise there will be a lot of conflict with pedestrians waiting outside the Kings. Ideally it should be on a different level, if not, marking it out in red or green tarmac should be done.

Shutting Tarvit Street will also make turning right out of Gilmore Place far more pleasant for all involved (vehicles and cyclists) as you won't get the green light-anticipating morons flooring it out of the former or trying to sneek in front of them from the latter.

Posted 9 years ago #
jdanielp
Member

I commented, expressing my concern about opening Tarvit Street to two way vehicular traffic (ok, so there might not be as much traffic after they close the West end of it, but I would be somewhat concerned about then having to cross from the right to the left of the street after using the new toucan crossing to cross Melville Drive), and also querying the lack of information about gaining access to the canal towpath itself at the other end of Lochrin Place with reference to concerns about cobbles.

Posted 9 years ago #
Min
Member

Yes, surely Tarvit Street is way too narrow to have two way vehicular traffic plus parking bays on both sides in places. Okay, so it will be less busy if it is no longer a rat run but we all know that cyclists will be shoved out of the way by drivers on a too-narrow street.

I otherwise like the idea of using it though.

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

guys - agree with all the points you've raised. project parameters were pretty tight, and lots of the things raised here were considered to be 'outwith the scope'....

totally agree regarding the 'shared space' bits, especially the corner of tarvit. very concerned/curious to see how it will work in practice.

on tarvit street options, if you follow the link and look at the workshop report, you'll see the various options considered. none of them ideal from cyclist-only perspective.

Posted 9 years ago #
Min
Member

They could do almost all of what they suggest but just make Valleyfield Street two way for bikes (having just said I like the idea of using Tarvit Street). Then they could do away with the two way bike lane and toucan in Brougham Place as the infra is already there to take bikes from there to the Meadows.

Posted 9 years ago #
Edinburgh Cycle Training
Member

By and large, that sounds pretty positive. Well done everyone involved in lobbying for these improvements

If Tarvit Street is to become a cul-de-sac, it pretty much has to have two way traffic re-introduced, no?

Posted 9 years ago #
Min
Member

They could go down Drumdryan Street. Then the only bit that needs to be two way is the bit past it. And that really would be very little traffic. It would be similar to East Crosscauseway.

Posted 9 years ago #
Chug
Member

I didn't mean to come across as negative - I think the proposals demonstrate a real desire to implement something worthwhile.

I especially like the idea of introducing a segregated 2-way bike lane alongside a major arterial route like Home St. If it is well executed and well used, it could potentially show the way for future, similar, projects.

Posted 9 years ago #
Edinburgh Cycle Training
Member

They could, but some pretty large vehicles visit the Kings. Sending then round Drumdryan Street probably isn't the best option.

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

there will have to be bollards at the end of tarvit to allow the theatre lorries to get out. but, my impression was that council officers were fairly comfortable about closing the road.

a segregated cyclepath on tarvit was also considered, but it would have meant loss of parking. with tarvit closed, but parking retained, it means that parking spaces can be changed on home street. hopefully making it better for peds and bus passengers, but without reducing overall number of spaces (i do feel for the shops along there, they get a raw deal at present).

Posted 9 years ago #
Nelly
Member

Regarding the cobbles, is the cut-thru from West Tollcross to Lower Gilmore place not open?

I agree that I wouldnt touch the cobbles at the North end, but if you get to the south easily and go over the bridge, pretty good solution.

@SRD, I was looking at this from the perspective of my son, and thinking that we could conceivably go from Argyle Place (say) to the canal and on to Hermiston Gait without too much danger/difficulty.

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

yes, that;s what I meant by 'good within the constraitns of the scheme'. it's definitely going to enable more family cycling. how much use it will be to commuters? i dunno. the tarvit close-off should make it somewhat better.

Posted 9 years ago #
fimm
Member

"cut-thru from West Tollcross to Lower Gilmore place" is the place with the hideous cobbles as far as I am concerned.

However I (as an experienced road-using cyclist) can either a) go all the way round West Tollcross and then left and so to Fountainbridge or even better b) not go down Lochrin Place at all but pick up the next left and cut through that way or even c) go straight on out of Tarvit Street and use Glimore Place as I do now.

Going the other way any improvement to the King's Theatre junction is a good thing.

I'll send lots of positive comments :-)

Posted 9 years ago #
neddie
Member

@Min A two-way cul-de-sac encourages lower traffic speeds versus a one-way loop. It also discourages cars from going in there in the first place, knowing they'll have to make a 3 point turn to get out.

Cars travel much faster on one-way streets, knowing they'll not meet anything coming the other way.

Posted 9 years ago #
Charlethepar
Member

Was driving down Tarvit street on Tuesday, and met a young woman cyclist coming the other way, pretty much in the middle of the road. Gave her plenty of space and a rueful grin.

As people have said, the King's Theatre junction is a nightmare, so the only way is up.

Has anyone been able to see from the diagrams if there will be lights to carry you (legally, on a bike) out of Tarvit street and on to Gilmore Place? Not everyone wants to go to the canal.

Posted 9 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Not everyone wants to go to the canal"

Good point!

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

"Has anyone been able to see from the diagrams if there will be lights to carry you (legally, on a bike) out of Tarvit street and on to Gilmore Place? Not everyone wants to go to the canal."

I was told verbally that this will be accommodated. how it will work in practice, i do not know.

would be good if you could comment along these lines ie 'its good, but...'

Posted 9 years ago #

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