I've just moved to Edinburgh and am looking to buy a Dutch-style city bike. The problem is that I'm totally unaccustomed to the terrain that Edinburgh seems to present. I will be living in Gilmerton and working in Roslin, and I'm hoping to commute. I'll also be wanting to do my weekly shopping at one of the ASDAs and maybe cycle around some of the interesting terrain I've seen. Can I get away with only three gears or would that be an uphill struggle? :)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help
How many gears do I need?
(34 posts)- Started 13 years ago by seanspotatobusiness
- Latest reply from kaputnik
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Posted 13 years ago #
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Welcome.
I suspect you'll get an interesting range of 'answers'.
There aren't too many on this forum who will say 'one is enough' (they have their own forum...)
My advice is make sure the bottom gear is low enough to get up your 'regular' hills comfortably.
I have bikes with 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 14 and 21 gears.
If I lived in Gilmerton I'm not sure my 3 speed would get used too much.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yup, I'd say it's not the number but as chdot has said ensuring that the bottom gear is low enough to let you climb the most severe hill you regularly encounter, you will then need enough of a spread to allow you to travel at your chosen/comfortable speed on the flat and ideally something in between.
Especially looking at "Dutch style" bikes you should be aware that some of them are far from featherweight and that will make climbing hills considerably harder, especially with shopping(!)
Of course the more you cycle the fitter you get and then the range required will change.....Personally I'd borrow/rent/get something with more gears and try your more common trips a couple of times and see which gears you need/use, you can then make more of an educated guess as to your requirements before limiting yourself to only three.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Posted 13 years ago #
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lol, looking at that I'm thinking of a chainset with three rings... ;-))
Posted 13 years ago # -
Yes I won't weigh in and say "one" gear (they don't let me play with them on their forum anyway, because I like my freewheel). Rather, I'll re-iterate the above and sensible advice of making sure your bottom gear will get you up the hills. If you can get from the Sainsburys at Cameron Toll to Gilmerton on a bike you've tried, then that's fine, you probably won't need to do many larger or longer hills to get around town (as there really aren't any!)
Have a look at some routes you might like to ride (such as your commute, the ride to the supermarket, a ride into town) on Mapmyride or an equivalent website that will give you an idea of the gradients and climbs.
You don't see many "dutch / english roadsters" around town and there may be a reason for that in Smudge's comment about the weight of them not really lending itself to hillclimbing. If you're looking for something fashionable* then old Raleigh / Peugeot / Falcon / Triumph road bikes with downtube-operated dérailleur gears seem to be in vogue.
* warning. Follow my advice on what is fashionable at your own risk
Posted 13 years ago # -
lol, looking at that I'm thinking of a chainset with three rings
No, one (46x17) is definitely all that is needed.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"If you can get from the Sainsburys at Cameron Toll to Gilmerton on a bike you've tried".
Roughly this route/elevation floored me on my 15 speed when towing trailer. Could probably have managed the hills, but the traffic lights at Kirk Brae did me in.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Admittedly I've never tried pulling a trailer up that hill, or even carry a load greater than a camera and a banana!
Posted 13 years ago # -
http://edinburgh.cyclestreets.net/journey/220646
I planned that route because it was about same length as Gilmerton to Roslin.
(Didn't realise Broughton/Rodney was quite so steep.)
Posted 13 years ago # -
I have a Batavus Dutch bike with 7 hub gears (and also hub brakes and dynamo for the front light). It is a bit heavier than most other bikes, however it is great for putting lots of shopping in the panniers and it will just roll along quite happily.
I find that hub gears and brakes are a lot smoother and easier than derailleur gears. They are especially good when you don't have time to change gear in time, for example heading up hills, when stopped (you can change to any gear while stationary), and sudden red lights.
Cycling in general, and also hill climbing on any bike requires building it up over time. Each time you try to go up a hill and don't manage, don't worry about it, try again and hopefully soon you'll be able to get all the way up the hill.
I'll happily recommend a Dutch bike with hub gears if you want a bike that will last and can take your shopping/baggage on the bike rack quite happily.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I've cycled from Cameron Toll up the Gilmerton Road to Moredun with shopping on my back and sometime hanging off my handle bars many, many times over 4 years ago, Think that was when I had an 8 speed hub geared bike for some of it.
I've had plenty of practice when it come to taking bikes up hills, that I just don't think about it. I'll just sit back and pedal. I might go slower than people, but I will usually get there.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Okay, what I'm now thinking of doing is buying a single-speed bike and a five- or seven-speed hub and putting the hub into the wheel (probably at The Bike Station?). I want the brakes to be in the hubs as well. Can anyone recommend a hub? I'm not interested in saving weight, but would like something cheap and durable.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Why not get a bike with gears/brakes in place?
Posted 13 years ago # -
Well, I thought it'd be more expensive. These look great: http://www.dutchbike.co.uk/Traditional3.htm but the prices are obscene.
I could try this: http://www.amsterdammers.co.uk/bikes/L_VicoDeLuxe/VicoDeLuxegallery.htm but I've never heard of 'Vico' before which has suitable gears and breaks.
I want stainless steel rims because aluminium ones are comparatively vulnerable (to cobble stones etc).
Posted 13 years ago # -
Dutch bikes are expensive, however you will find that they are lower maintenance and much longer lasting than most bikes you get in the UK.
http://dutchbikeshop.co.uk/page5.htm or http://dutchbikeshop.co.uk/page9.htm are the most similar to the model I currently have. http://www.flickr.com/photos/smsm1/tags/mybicycle/ Their customer service is some of the best I've seen in the cycle industry.
I'm averaging 100+ miles per week on it. As long as you keep the tires pumped up to pressure, cobbles, potholes and those annoying speed bumps aren't an issue. What is an issue is when a car driver decides to not stop when he doesn't have priority, and you end up over their bonnet.
http://blog.shaunmcdonald.me.uk/2010/07/cycling-car-bonnet/You may be interested in some of the cheaper hub geared bikes that EdinburghBicycle are selling. I can't vouch for their quality though. Look for the bikes with Nexus
Revolution Pathfinder Nexus '09
Revolution Pathfinder Nexus '10Pashley are also high quality such as:
Pashley Princess Sovereign
Pashley Roadster SovereignPosted 13 years ago # -
Dutch bikes are expensive
Looking at the specs on those websites, they don't seem nearly so expensive when you consider they come pre-built with most of the accessories you will need in terms of rack, lights, kickstands, saddlebag, pump, guards etc. (you could easily spend £100-150 kitting out a new bike)
Although it's half the cost of the above Dutch bikes, the Revolution Nexus does weigh in at 16kg however. I dread to think what the Pashley weighs - can't seem to find on Google apart from a general consensus that it's "a lot"
Posted 13 years ago # -
I have had a Bianchi with Alfine hub gears (8) for 2 years. It is a lot lighter weight than most with hub gears (about 11 or 12 kg with extras). I use this for commuting and, living out in Eskbank, often pass through Gilmerton.
The hub gear set up isn't quite as low cost as I though it would be - I have replaced the chain and cog quite a few times. But it is quicker to clean in winter - just a quick wipe and oil. I do miss the derailleur though - my road bike is far quicker to accelerate and also to go up hills - due to the lower weight of the hub. I personally wouldn't go for a single speed - I like the comfort, flexibility and efficiency of multiple gears.
Posted 13 years ago # -
As someone who lived in Gilmerton for a couple of years, and cycled to work in the city centre every day, I feel I should offer an opinion. Whatever bike you get, make sure it has one ultra-low gear. The climb up Kirk Brae with a load of shopping from Cameron Toll is almost impossible without it.
I know you say you aren't concerned about weight - but I would recommend that you do get as light a bike as possible if you are going to live in Gilmerton. This isn't some poncy affectation - the hills are murder around there and it is often very windy.
The quiet route from Gilmerton to Straiton (via Lang Loan) is unlit for part of the way, make sure you have good lights if you intend to do this at night. That goes for other routes out towards Roslin too - it is real boy-racer territory around there and you want to be seen.
Make sure you have "armadillo" type tyres as broken glass can occasionally be a problem in parts of Gilmerton.
When I lived there I usually rode a 24 speed mountain bike with slick tyres, rack etc. and found it a useful workhorse that was well suited to the terrain. I've no experience of dutch bikes, so can't really offer an opinion on their suitability - although it's fair to say that Edinburgh is not Holland when it comes to terrain.
Posted 13 years ago # -
many years ago I had a Raleigh bike with a 4-speed Sturmey Archer gearset and that did most everything I required of it.
Except when once I was cycling along the A836 Strathy to Tongue road (started from Helmsdale). Downhills were great but the ups were a nightmare. There was also a Force 8 gale going the other direction which did NOT help at all!
Posted 13 years ago # -
"4-speed Sturmey Archer"
Yeah they are great when they work.
Unfortunately it's bottom gear that's the least reliable.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I can't say I ever had a problem with it. Only once did I replace the whole cable when it became frayed.
The only problem I ever had with that bike is the handlebar stapped in two! Then I had to fix one half to the central post to get to our destination (driving one-handed and a single brake). A local garage at Killin had a scrap set of handlebars which he gave me.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"I can't say I ever had a problem with it."
That's probably because you kept it adjusted properly and eased the pedal pressure when changing gear.
Some people don't know about such things.
Posted 13 years ago # -
That's probably because you kept it adjusted properly and eased the pedal pressure when changing gear.
Same goes for derailleur gears. Keep them cleaned and lubed and trimmed and don't cycle in daft combinations of chainring and cog and they'll just keep on going. Unfortunately too many people seem to think that rust is an inexpensive and appropriate dry lubricant
Posted 13 years ago # -
"too many people seem to think that rust is an inexpensive and appropriate dry lubricant"
Such a nice noise too...
Posted 13 years ago # -
Such a nice noise too...
No need to ring, we'll hear you coming! At least that noise - and the inevitably bulging under-pressure tyres - gives you a warning to keep well clear as you passPosted 13 years ago # -
@amir I find it interesting that you find it faster to accelerate on a derailleur bike, as I've found that I get a much better acceleration, and move faster and more cleanly up the gears on a hub geared bike.
On the tires, I'd recommend the Schwable Marathon Plus, but make sure that you have a good rim tape. They will even stop screws going into the tire http://www.flickr.com/photos/smsm1/2515057575/. The only problem I've ever had with them is rim side punctures due to a bad rim tape that didn't fit properly. A couple of bike shops I went in and asked for a new wide rim tape didn't believe me that that was the cause. Once that was sorted the punctures went away.
Posted 13 years ago # -
smsm1: well that's my experience (but I suppose they are different bikes as well). I can definitely feel the deadweight in the back wheel compared to my road bike and I need a good stretch of road to get up to cruising speed.
If the hubgear set up was as effective in terms of speed as a derailleur then you might expect to see them in pro-races. Of course this doesn't mean that they are not convenient for day-to-day cycling.
Posted 13 years ago # -
@amir / smsm1 - I think - and could be horribly wrong - it's got much less to do with what types of gearing you are running than with the rotating mass of the whole wheel. The weight further from the hub being the biggest factor, i.e. the hub and the tyre.
With a derailleur, the only rotating part of the gearing you have to spin up is the cassette but (correct me if I'm wrong) with a hub gear you have to spin the whole thing up as it all rotates. On the same rim, tyre and spoke combination therefore the rotating weight of the derailleur wheel would be less, therefore it should be faster to spin up (using the same pair of legs).
So if you really want to get fast accelleration you do what roadies do and go for the lightest possible rim and tyre. Fancy, high-end gearing components might save you some weight but I've yet to read about anyone advocating drivetrain improvements as a way to actually make you go faster. £ for pound it's not worth it. When I play with the ERC boys and girls, I'm more than capable of holding my own with a well-maintained and trimmed 7 year old Sora against 105 and Ultegra equipped bikes that come out of the shed once a month. Alternatively you get a much smaller and lighter wheel, which is the tree that Mr Moulton was barking up.
One of the reasons that a single speed bike can rapidly get up to speed as fast - if not faster - than most geared bikes (who can then sail past you when you spin out at 20 mph) is the reduced rotating mass of the rear wheel. You just stick a lot of force on the crank to get going and then it's remarkably easy.
Of course perception is all subjective based on the ability of the rider and the various wheels and gears combinations they are used to.
Posted 13 years ago # -
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Posted 13 years ago #
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