Sciennes Primary Playground Expansion
Standard Neil Greig soundbite "any loss of road space is likely to lead to problems"
Problems?
Aye, a 2 minute detour Neil or......radical one this.....encourage people not to drive??
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Proposed Playground Expansion over Sciennes Road
(29 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Closing a residential road to through traffic and expanding a playground. What's not to like?
Will it have a cycle lane?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Of course, the proposal is only to close the 150 yards from Sick Kids to Livinstone Place - the rest of the road will be accessible, I reckon about 25 parking spaces lost.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"
But motorist groups have warned that inadequate planning could see surrounding streets transformed into rat runs following a road closure and argued that it should be considered a last resort.
"
Well Sciennes Road is a rat now, so?
"encourage people not to drive??"
Quite.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Will be good to get ratrunners away from the school entrance. I understand that the lollypop lady outside Sciennes recently left due to the abusive drivers.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"I understand that the lollypop lady outside Sciennes recently left due to the abusive drivers."
I was told 'she got another job', but it wouldn't surprise me.
Posted 9 years ago # -
They'd better get it implemented before the current Sick Kids building gets transformed into 'executive apartments' or there will be oodles of objections.
Parking is not really an issue in the Southside with the exception of a couple of streets (eg Marchmont Crescent) caused by dense housing where multiple occupants of each flat are likely to own a vehicle. I think we could do with experimenting with using a bit more of the car parking space for other purposes, be it recreational, community spaces, active travel, etc. CEC largely seems afraid of temporary experiments with ideas to improve street environments.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"caused by dense housing where multiple occupants of each flat are likely to own a vehicle"
I think this isn't as true as many people think.
Even with end-on parking, I would be surprised if MC had even one car (space) per flat. Obviously people can't/don't just part in their own street.
"I think we could do with experimenting with using a bit more of the car parking space for other purposes, be it recreational, community spaces, active travel, etc."
Would be nice.
"CEC largely seems afraid of temporary experiments with ideas to improve street environments."
Yes. I'm never sure whether the problem is largely the officials assuming the councillors won't agree so don't try to be 'adventurous' or whether it's just the 'usual politicians' fear of car owning voters'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I don't feel I can object to a road being closed to evil rat-runners, but I am a bit worried that some of them will start bombing down the parallel street Hatton Place instead. I cycle that way at the moment and it's a nice quiet wee road, though quite narrow too. (Not helped by the all day legal parking on double yellow lines at the blind junctions.)
There was a mention a year or two ago of several possible road blockages in the area once the hospital closed - IIRC the west end of Fingal Place and the north end of Chalmers Crescent were involved too. Are those still on the cards?
Map of the areaPosted 9 years ago # -
You mean something a bit like this:
(put together by me in about 5 minutes...)
The black boxes are passable by pedestrians and cyclists but not cars, in any direction.Posted 9 years ago # -
Except that Argyle Place is a bus route.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Bus bollards?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I remember reading (on here I think) that Sciennes / Marchmont has a car ownership level of 20%. So most local people would benefit.
Also, regarding the parking on yellow lines. This is done by hospital staff using parking permits that are only supposed to be used by the likes of health visitors popping in on patients - not for people to park all day!
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Parking is not really an issue in the Southside with the exception of a couple of streets (eg Marchmont Crescent) caused by dense housing where multiple occupants of each flat are likely to own a vehicle."
"I remember reading (on here I think) that Sciennes / Marchmont has a car ownership level of 20%."
Did a very rough guesstimate on Marchmont Crescent (south part) today.
About 80 parking spaces and (based on assumptions about flats per stair) about 170 houses.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Sciennes/Marchmont car ownership is fairly low,partly due to large student population.
Closing off roads in isolation is not my preferred option (large elderly population, many rely on car), need SOME closures plus alter more to one way (except for bikes).
Argyle place is a tough one, but could be bollarded across east side to Chalmers cres allowing bus route to remain.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Except that Argyle Place is a bus route. "
I didn't know that. I don't really know the area very well (as it happens my sister lived in Arden Street, which is in the next block of roads over, when she was a student).My understanding of the way to do filtered permeability is that you still allow car access to every house, but you take out all the through roads for cars while leaving them for cyclists & pedestrians. That's why I blocked Argyle Place. I also contemplated blocking the Gladstone Terrace - St Catherine's Place and Livingstone Place - Tantallon Place through routes too. It is just an illustration of the sort of thing that might be done!
(I do think I saw a similar map of that area put togther by people who did know what they are talking about (unlike me)).
Posted 9 years ago # -
One bus goes down Marchmont Rd and the other down Marchmont Crescent then Argyle Place. You'd think it's not beyond the wit of man to have them both use Marchmont Road...
You could then simply close Argyle Place at the junction with Melville Drive completely and use the time saved in traffic light sequencing to put a proper box junction at the bottom of Marchmont road, instead of two pedestrian crossings on the corners of a square.
Take the opportunity to properly align the cycle route across the Jawbone with the other side of the road. Job done!
Posted 9 years ago # -
You'd think it's not beyond the wit of man to have them both use Marchmont Road...
The 41 goes down, but does not stop on, Argyle Place. It stops on Roseneath Street (the name for the bit of Warrender Park Terrace on the other side of the blocked bit at Scotmid) and also on Marchmont Crescent. It probably mainly goes that way because the 41 (and in the olden days the 40) always went that way. They route isn't really that conveniently located for people going to the Sick Kids, you're better getting off on Melville Drive, and moving the hospital to the moon, or Little France, gets around that point anyway.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I lived on argyle place for a couple of years in the late eighties early nineties and never caught the bus. Indeed almost no one ever caught the bus, it was every 30 mins, maybe it went to crammond?
Marchmont is a curious place. The woman my flat mate bought the flat from had lived in the flat all her days. There was coal in the coal cupboard that had been there since 1950. She burned one lump a day and a second lump when showing the property. She wore a thick jumper under her shirt Her family bought the house from the builder. She used to catch the bus. There are still people fitting this description living in flats that would presumably sell for wonga in an instAnt.
Built as an area for respectable middle classes? Never meant to have transportation facilities (unlike the toffs in the Newtown who had their carriages and horses in the mews). Never became slums like other tenemented areas. Finally overrun by students. Thus at no point has car ownership ever really taken off?
On related topic was returning from gallery of modern art and took right hand turn to walk to Haymarket to catch a tram and on Douglas Cresecnt or similar an installation of two huge green roll top bike lockers had appeared. Very jazzy. Each locker looked like it could take multiple bikes.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Indeed almost no one ever caught the bus"
Changed days then, its a very busy bus. My family and I use it a lot.
It stops outside/opposite Eddies fish shop, about 100 yards from A&E entrance.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Re the 41 bus, yes it's been busy for decades. In the early 80s when I arrived in this fair city the 41 and 42 both ran every 15 minutes. With the introduction of private University of Edinburgh buses the 42's ridership declined so over the years it was changed to every 20 minutes, then every half hour. The 41 has remained at every 15 minutes all that time. I don't think Lothian Buses is a slouch when it comes to cutting back on lightly used bus services.
@ KeepPedalling - thanks! I didn't know that. It would seem that the Priority Permits are being abused then as it's mostly the same few cars which park all day every day on the same bits of double yellow line. Usually there are plenty of empty residents' permit spaces nearby.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Love the idea that a student area wouldnt have cars; as a Marchmont dweller I can tell you that many of them have Minis and Fiat 500s etc. A lot of wealth and very few old bangers. Ground floors still tend to be families, with a mix of students and the elderly above. 41 and 24 are pretty busy whenever I get them.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I just looked at the 41 I never got on it, though did occasionally catch it from george St? To go to crammond. Time of day I looked, maybe many buses quiet as indeed service would be withdrawn if under used.
Sick kids staff been slagged on here before for using permits to park illegally, e.g. NHS professional On Call when they are indeed inside the hospital all day.
I did not mix in circles where students had cars but did once take a lift off cat in a fiat panda he had painted big black spots on. Would judge he was off money and I grudged giving him anything for the petrol to port Edgar. This was when I thought I should make an effort and join some clubs.
What is car ownership like in marchmont compared with new town another area with students and other people.?.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I've a feeling that families are returning to Marchmont. Perhaps the students are moving to purpose-built?
Only a feeling, no evidence or facts to back up...
Posted 9 years ago # -
@edd1e_h - I think you're right. Also in our stairwell the once student flats seem to now be young professional flats, which I think is due to the increase of purpose-built….
Posted 9 years ago # -
"I don't think Lothian Buses is a slouch when it comes to cutting back on lightly used bus services"
Unfortunately to people living in Morningside that's exactly what they did do to the Craighouse incarnation on the 41. Now we just get single deckers on the hour (apart from Sundays when they run double deckers).
In compensation they added the not-so-useful 36.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Never meant to have transportation facilities (unlike the toffs in the Newtown who had their carriages and horses in the mews).
Have to correct you there. There is 1 Mews at the top of Marchmont Road.
With regards public transport, the trams used to go along Melville Drive* and up Marchmont Road, then along Strathearn towards Church Hill. Marchmont was developed fairly late on and most was always served by trams. The Marchmont suburb was formed from the fueing of the Warrender Park estate, swallowing up some earlier houses on Roseneath Terrace and some small farming / artisans hamlets, one of which had the romantic name of New Campbletown. The suburb was the largest new development of its time and was originally to be known as Warrender Park (some of the streets and the swimming baths carry this name). Other streets carry names of the lands and titles of the Warrender family. In the Malcolm Cant book on Marchmont he suggests that it was the tramways company that popularised the name of Marchmont as Warrender Park was a bit inconvenient for timetables / route maps / destination blinds.
It was originally intended when the Park was feued that the houses would be villa-style, think Murrayfield for the sort of villas they had in mind. However the only part of that original plan that was carried out is now the Links Hotel. Everything else was re-designed as tenements once the economy of building these was realised and they became more acceptable with the middle and professional classes moving out of the city centre. They were as such mainly built to a much higher standard and finish quality than they typical working class tenements of Edinburgh. Some even had servents quarters and some are two-storeys, occupying the 2nd and 3rd floors. Each stair was fueud out to a developer or builder, who had to design and build the block to some fairly strict guidelines laid down by the Warrenders. The Warrenders also had a final say on approving the details. Many of the developers put their initials or crests onto the tenements (look up and you will see these), and many built themselves houses and offices in the new suburb. Part of the architectural charm of the area is how many variations on a theme of the basic design there are. The later development around Thirlestanes is much more uniform.
Love the idea that a student area wouldnt have cars; as a Marchmont dweller I can tell you that many of them have Minis and Fiat 500s etc.
We played a game once counting Minis and Fiat 500s on a walk between Marchmont and Waitrose. Minis outnumbered Fiats about 3:1. It was something like 60:20 in total. Bonus points were recieved for convertibles or (new) VW Beetles. Only 1 of the latter was seen. It was a convertible. Triple word score.
* - bit of heritage. The lamp posts on Melville Drive are not lamp posts. They are sawn-off tram poles that used to support the catenary. The economical corporation simply cut them down to size and stuck a light on top later on. Similar poles can be seen on the Mound, on South St. David Street and some on Granton Road I think.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@kaputnik
The tram post/lampost thing has made my day. I love things hiding in plain sight. Thanks.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@kapps thanks for this info, thought trams would feature, I know the mews you mean and had look at property old couple were selling many moons ago. I wonder if the mews were for marchmont though or for the more likely kilgraston / grange area? Tiny box rooms for servants for sure. In our flat on argyle place my flat mate had a mattress I am sure had straw in it. The rug was from temple tons and he had the sofa redone at huge expense. It had a lever that dropped an arm to allow lying down on. Back boiler was removed. Flooring was very thin Lino, waffer thin indeed. Doorway of close had a lock you slotted a 'key' into and lifted upwards, though your pinky also worked.
Nadia was little girl in the top veg shop, tse's fish shop was on argyle, side. Alan spence sometimes helped out in the Buddhist deli, a couple of dirty smelly old men ran the newspaper shop, they commented anytime you bought a guardian. we called them Mr Filthy McNasty and Mr Filthy McNasty's friend. The gentle touch was just opening, there were no bike shops. There was a laundrette though we flooded the neighbours twice with top loader. More upmarket now with flower shop and non-buddhist deli
Posted 9 years ago #
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