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"Crash deaths spark calls for speed trap"

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Not sure the headline makes much sense.

    "

    URGENT safety measures are needed to prevent further tragedies on a “dangerous” bend blamed for a recent fatal car crash, residents have claimed.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/crash-deaths-spark-calls-for-speed-trap-1-3602044

    On the face of it it's a case of driver error (inc. speed) on a particularly 'bad' corner.

    I've said for years that there should be pedestrian/cycle lights there not least because it ought to be an important walk/cycle route between Craigmillar Country Park (with existing cycle links to the Innocent) and Inch Park.

    Of course that was always 'too expensive'.

    IF this crash causes money to be spent, then ped/cycle interests must be included.

    The crossing lights could/should be triggered to red by any vehicle approaching at more than 30mph.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. fimm
    Member

    Don't know the area well but there's one of those cars that magically cross the road of their own accord in that report.

    I do like the idea of a light that goes red if you drive towards it at over the speed limit.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. crowriver
    Member

    "one of those cars that magically cross the road of their own accord"

    I suppose if any blame is to be apportioned, it will come out in the FAI. The driver is dead, so he's been punished enough for losing control of the vehicle. Tragic that another was killed and a third in a coma.

    We can't speculate as to which car was speeding, but it seems likely one or both were.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. Min
    Member

    Pretty horrific. I wondered why the flowers were there this morning as it is difficult to imagine how a crash could have happened here. I definitely agree there need to be speed cameras on this road.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. jdanielp
    Member

    I too like the idea of lights that turn red if you drive towards them at over the speed limit. Do they exist yet?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    There's a speed camera on London Road that lights up our front room in the evening every time it flashes (once every few minutes).

    I like to watch proceedings out the window, as we're yet to get round to having curtains made to fit the window. This part of the road is a late-night race track, the motors can be heard accelerating up the hill, right to the grid painted on the road, before hitting the brakes, slowing just enough to miss the camera and then rapidly accelerating again. Some of them who are clearly racing (2 abreast, 3 or 4 cars involved) don't even bother to brake and all of them get flashed. A lot of them seem to go back and forth all evening, using McDonalds as their social club.

    So, to summarise, speed cameras don't stop muppetry on the roads, they either displace it someplace else, people learn the "rules" just enough to avoid the penalty, or the others just don't care and carry on regardless.

    P.S. I still agree with the concept of the speed camera, particulary to enforce limits amonst the "otherwise law abiding"/ "I was only doing 10mph over the limit" community, it's just they aren't a magic panacea to deal with road safety when used in isolation.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. Charlethepar
    Member

    How fast must this bloke have been driving to lose control and cross the centre line on what is not a particularly tight corner?

    Do drivers really need the discipline of a speed camera to remind them not to drive in such a way as to kill themselves?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. neddie
    Member

    Never mind speed cameras. GPS controlled speed limiters are what's required. End this madness now.

    Another tragic set of deaths.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. Charlethepar
    Member

    edd1e_h

    I think you may find that insurance companies get there with GPS speed monitoring devices first

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2632266/Speed-spies-half-cars-2020-Drivers-face-refused-insurance-refuse-install-black-box-style-systems.html

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. crowriver
    Member

    It's only a 'dangerous' corner because it is inbetween two long straight sections, and so slight a bend that drivers just barrel along at full tilt. So it's not the corner, but the driving habits that are dangerous.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. bruce_mcadam
    Member

    I used to cycle across that road between Craigmillar Castle Park and Inch Park when commuting. From the CCPark exit, it's hard to see traffic approaching from the left and closing speeds are fast. Like chdot says, there should be a pelican or toucan crossing.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. Stickman
    Member

    Charlthepar:

    Yes, although until widespread the insurer-fitted GPS trackers won't always have an effect:

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13845

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. slowcoach
    Member

    This site wouldn't have qualified for a fixed speed camera under the government's rules: there have to be 3 or more fatal or serious accidents before the Safety Camera Programme would fund one, even if this is far more than might be expected, or if it is likely that a camera would deter bad driving and save casualties. the government say this is evidence-based but haven't produced any evidence to show why.

    Using red-lights to try to stop speeders has been talked about for years, and is said to be used in Spain. There were proposals to use this in UK a few years ago - I don't know if it happened or what results if any were. Would drivers who are already breaking the speed limit obey the red light? I wouldn't bet on it.

    GPS controlled speed limiters (aka ISA)? the Scottish Government made a commitment 5 years ago to promote voluntary use of this within 2 - 5 years, so there can't be long left to wait now.

    It is still possible to lose control without breaking a 30mph speed limit, but much less likely to kill someone (especially if they are in a car)

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. neddie
    Member

    Motor insurance should be made illegal.

    Motorists would drive a lot more carefully if they knew they had to bear the full costs in the event of a collision.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Perhaps the minimum age for driving should be thirty for men?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. Bhachgen
    Member

    The speed activated red lights are very common in Portugal. As soon as you get off the toll motorways they are on all the main roads in Western Algarve anyway. Can't comment for the rest of the country. I've driven in a few areas of Spain and not seen them there.

    The Spanish just seem to put very sharp speedbumps on every road that isn't a motorway. I've never executed as many bunny hops as I did on a couple of days on a hire bike around Marbella. Which given that it was a carbon-fibre road bike with 23mm tyres meant I was continually on edge!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. SSR
    Member

    I used to have an allotment at Bridgend and crossing from Inch Park was absolutely treacherous, especially with with young kids on bikes. Very busy and often too fast traffic.

    As it is a main entrance to the allotment site, Craigmillar Castle Park, the cottages, and possibly soon the Bridgend House centre it should have had traffic management and a pedestrian crossing years ago.

    This is a shame but unfortunately not unexpected nor is it the first serious or even fatal accident along that road in recent years.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  18. Instography
    Member

    Calls for speed trap not speed enforcement. A trap.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    "Trap" is of course a 'loose' word with connotations...

    http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/22/police-officers-confronted-for-setting-up-speed-trap-in-unmarked-car-4842310

    Posted 9 years ago #

  20. gkgk
    Member

    I sometimes wonder about that whole three deaths rule, logical only if reducing speed is only for reducing deaths.

    If 80% of a street's residents signed a petition asking for a self-funding speed camera, they'd have a good argument for changing the rule maybe..

    Posted 9 years ago #

  21. Instography
    Member

    It's logical if you want to defend yourself again the charge that speed cameras are a cash cow to milk otherwise law-abiding motorists whose unintended speeding causes no real danger to anyone.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  22. acsimpson
    Member

    @Instography, of course as we know if you start with the correct set of false assumptions you can come to any conclusion. Why speed cameras aren't seen as a way for the government to raise funds from those breaking the law and thus reduce the burden on others is a little curious.

    @chdot, If by entrapment they mean permitting you to own a vehicle and providing roads which make it possible to speed then yes I suppose it is entrapment. I think Mr Rooney is confusing enforcement with entrapment.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  23. chdot
    Admin

    "I think Mr Rooney is confusing enforcement with entrapment."

    Indeed.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    "Motor insurance should be made illegal."

    Interesting idea, but unfortunately the Big One is beyond the means of most citizens. They'd simply be ruined without ever covering the payout.

    Motor insurance premiums aren't really based on the cost of fixing prangs or replacing stolen vehicles - that's chicken feed. It's the likelihood of putting someone on intensive care for forty years that really drives the price.

    I do like the idea of replacing airbags with World War One bayonets though.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  25. slowcoach
    Member

    from DfT guidance for England: "Traffic authorities are already free to use additional measures in 20 mph limits to achieve compliance, such as some traffic calming measures and vehicle activated signs, or safety cameras. Average speed cameras may provide a useful tool for enforcing compliance with urban speed limits."

    Posted 9 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Cllr Cook, who represents the Gilmerton/Liberton ward, said: “It’s understandable that they would want to look further at the issue and how we could improve signage and enforcement of the limit.

    “It’s tragic that the residents have had to deal with something like that on their doorsteps.”

    But he warned that the options available to the authorities may be limited because Old Dalkeith Road – part of the A7 – is a “main arterial route” in and out of the city.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/death-crash-driver-did-not-have-driving-licence-1-3609512

    Posted 9 years ago #

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