Just came through Harrison Park at about 8 this morning. At least 3 yellow "Cyclists Slow Down" signs between the tow path exit point and Harrison Rd. Look like they've been put up by some disgruntled party. Fairly official plastic material and held on with cable ties. What's the recommendation for this - ignore or remove? I wasn't aware of any particular issues in this park.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
Harrison Park - Cyclists Slow Down
(60 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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It's a park, shared with people with dogs and kids. Ride sensibly (in many cases that'll mean slowing down if there are people around or you're not sure if ways are clear etc) and all will be well. It's all just common sense really - the signs are so it looks like something is being done.
What I wouldn't suggest is ignore or remove.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Die hard cyclist of my acquaintance - the sort who took retirement as an excuse to cycle around the world - reported being nearly knocked down a couple of years ago. Not the sort who would report that out of anti-cyclist venom.
Doubt that is the case that has caused current issues, but certainly there are issues there.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It's a shared space, I recommend that anyone going too fast should slow down and anyone not can safely ignore.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Without doubt you should cycle slowly through the park, given the variety of users, in particular small children, but it's the singling out of a group for a group admonishment that I object to. I go through there at a low speed, often with a 3 yr old on the back, but why should I feel that I'm there under sufferance?
@WC "What I wouldn't suggest is ignore or remove."
I can ignore a sign without feeling the need to speed and similarly I can choose a reasonable speed to cycle at without being singled out and told to. Would it be reasonable for me to put up signs saying "Dogwalkers - control your animal"? No, some do, some don't, but it creates emnity where it's not needed.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I wonder if it's the same sort of 'concerned community group' that did these ones:
Posted 10 years ago # -
Shame. I liked the sign they had/have there that says something like "Harrison Park welcomes careful cyclists". It makes me feel good about being a careful cyclist. This sort of thing puts my back up. It is not going to make me start riding too fast but it puts my back up.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'll ask Gavin Corbett, who is involved in Friends of Harrison Park, if he can give any context.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I can ignore a sign without feeling the need to speed and similarly I can choose a reasonable speed to cycle at without being singled out and told to. Would it be reasonable for me to put up signs saying "Dogwalkers - control your animal"? No, some do, some don't, but it creates emnity where it's not needed."
Straying into semantics, but yes, if you're already doing what the sign says then you can ignore it, in the same way when I'm driving I 'ignore' all speed signs, give way signs and no entry signs.
I'd actually have no problem with a sign about dog walkers (I'm on our local park friends committee and it is indeed something I've suggested - cyclists never come up cos the Figgy doesn't appear to be much used at all by cyclists, except kids).
Does it create enmity? Possibly, but also cyclists travelling through too quickly can do that too (and at least is an enmity based on fact). I have to admit I often cringe at phrases like, "... similarly I can choose a reasonable speed to cycle at without being singled out and told to". It's absolutely true, and the potential harm caused by a bike is obviously a lot lower than other forms of transport, but it is precisely the type of statement you hear from the likes of SafeSpeed. Almost everyone thinks, no matter what transport choice, that they know what a 'reasonable' or 'safe' speed to travel is. Sometimes people just need reminding that they should maybe re-evaluate.
That said, I wasn't aware of the previous sign that Min referred to, and that is a much better message that conveys a sense of it being okay to be there, but also just reinforcing that it's a shared area. If the 'Slow Down' signs are in place of those then it's a retrograde step. But I still wouldn't advocate (knowingly because you plan to breach any perceived limit) ignoring or removing the signs.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think we need some 'Cyclists Stay Awesome' signs to go over the top of them
Posted 10 years ago # -
The problem with signs is they don't work and just add visual clutter.
Do you think any of those signs that you see at every town/village, 'Bala Hoolie Burn welcomes careful drivers', makes the blind bit of difference to the way people drive there?
Posted 10 years ago # -
It's absolutely true, and the potential harm caused by a bike is obviously a lot lower than other forms of transport, but it is precisely the type of statement you hear from the likes of SafeSpeed.
Isn't this some kind of (milder version of) reductio ad Hitlerum?
Is it OK to take responsibility for changing my own lightbulbs? After all, taking responsibility is what SafeSpeed advocate, etc. etc.
Not to in any way defend SafeSpeed. Scum.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'd second the call for a "keep your dog under control" sign i.e. On a Lead because excrement gets left lying when dog "walkers" congregate and have a lovely chin wag every evening and don't actually watch where their dog is doing it's business. They can then ignore the sign too.
If one group gets a snarky sign any group who has cause to should too.Can we get a sign that says "ignore the signs" until there is no space to move because of all the signs?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"This is not a sign"
Posted 10 years ago # -
from gavin C "The parks officer was asked by a couple of residents what he could do about a small number of cyclists going too fast. So he had the signs put up. "
Posted 10 years ago # -
@WC Sorry to make you cringe by such phrases as "similarly I can choose a reasonable speed to cycle at without being singled out and told to". This is something anyone constantly does as they're riding - you adapt your speed to the situation you find yourself in. It’s called personal responsibility. This has nothing to do with Pondlife comments on the EEN along the lines of I drive to the conditions and if that's greater than the speed limit then so be it. You are misconstruing my original post. To be clear - people should not speed through parks, near children or anywhere in fact. That does not mean we need signs singling out specific groups for negative attention. We shouldn't drop litter, swear in earshot of anyone, drive like a maniac, buy the EEN. I don't do any of these things. I don't need a sign at the bottom of my garden path or in a park telling me not to do these things.
Road signs/markings have a totally different status. The post was about any particular self appointed person thinking they have the right to erect signs in our public places targeting another group.Posted 10 years ago # -
Had assumed that the signs would be on the potentially fast downhill diagonal, but no -
That's parallel to the canal which I assume has fewer cyclers(?)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Very overwhelming and unwelcoming.
And on a stretch where it is very difficult to go at all fast what with chicanes, and parked on drop kerbs at each end.
Posted 10 years ago # -
For the sake of harmonious relations, and as I know I've stood alone on this before, I shall bow out of the thread at this juncture.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Lamp-posts and children's playparks have signs on them asking dog-operators to reduce their biological hazard implementation, either through their dog's waste-output or uncontrolled presence; if this annoys responsible dog-owners then good - it'll maybe help persuade them to stay responsible and make them as annoyed as dog non-owners are with irresponsible dog-owners. Museums request that things are not touched, which maybe annoys people who feel they can handle exhibits responsibly. Bins in parks/streets have the "please put litter in this bin" picture, though really it's the rest of the park/street which needs "don't drop litter HERE" signs. Electricity substations and pylons have signs politely requesting people to not subject themselves to violent electrical death.
It sounds like it wasn't a self-appointed person who installed them. Maybe something a bit more like Roseburn's SLOW path-paint would be fairer than SLOW DOWN? Perhaps with a PLEASE? That way, if you're already going slowly, you're fine.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Well exactly. It's the language. A sign telling me to SLOW DOWN when I am already going slowly is just stupid. SLOW PLEASE would be fine.
Obnoxious signs don't make me annoyed with other cyclists, they make me annoyed with cycle haters.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Well exactly. It's the language. A sign telling me to SLOW DOWN when I am already going slowly is just stupid. SLOW PLEASE would be fine.
Obnoxious signs don't make me annoyed with other cyclists, they make me annoyed with cycle haters.
+1
I understand and agree with the sentiment of the signs, It is just the way that it is expressed. I think it is just plain rude.Posted 10 years ago # -
I suppose it's all a question of balance. I would suggest that those yellow signs above detract from the look of the park and risk some people viewing cyclists as in need of taming or restricting.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Holy ****. These signs aren't going to cause anyone to slow down, but they do succeed in making me feel unwelcome!
I have a limited stock of "stay awesome!" stickers but don't want to waste them on the pond-life that come up with this kind of drivel.
Posted 10 years ago # -
You would never get signs at this 'volume' telling dog owners to clear up their mess or car owners to not park on pavements or ramps. Cyclists though always need large type it seems.
These are at a DANGER MINEFIELD level... impressive use of yellow correx.
People will be blaming 'us' for these as we are responsible you know;-)I can feel a bollard moment coming soon...
Posted 10 years ago # -
I feel people are getting a bit hot under the collar over nothing here. These signs came about after complaints from residents that cyclists were going too fast. I imagine the person responsible for the signs was told something along the lines of "we have had complaints about cyclists going too fast. Can you knock out a few cheapo signs telling them to slow down." Which they then did.
I doubt any real thought was given to the wording, location or anything else. Simply, complaints that "something must be done" were made, something was done, complaint "sorted".
Posted 10 years ago # -
Yeah, signs are harmless.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I feel people are getting a bit hot under the collar over nothing here."
Yes but -
"I doubt any real thought was given to the wording, location or anything else. Simply, complaints that "something must be done" were made, something was done, complaint "sorted"."
THAT is a big part of the problem.
Ill thought out appeasement of a minority's complaint without any obvious evidence that there is any sort of real problem.
Especially when (around the same park) there have been complaints about lack of dropped kerbs and/or double yellows. The 'something must be done' has been promised but is stuck somewhere in the interminable TO process...
Posted 10 years ago # -
If these are not official signs, removing the DOWN with quick swipe of stanley knife would leave the more pleasant CYCLISTS SLOW. A big marker pen might add a smiley face after SLOW, always a nice friendly touch.
:)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Harrison park welcomes responsible cyclists please take care
Perfectly nice sign
Posted 10 years ago #
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