CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
stickyI think root-mean-square speed might well be the best measure.
That'd tell you the speed of the vehicle with the mean kinetic energy (which is proportional to the square of the speed). Small reductions in the number of vehicles travelling at the fastest speeds would show up as a larger change in the rms speed.
Cyclists can't use the WAR? Surely the bypass, but not the WAR?
If so, then oops...
Yes, cycling is prohibited on most of the WAR. All but the east end, if I remember right.
Aha. I have used the East End, before turning right. Quite a few times.
Not actually 20mph-related, but we were discussing roads in south Edinburgh with 40mph speed limits earlier in the thread, so...
A TRO has been published to reduce the speed limits on Gilmerton Station Road, Lang Loan and Burdiehouse Road.
Gilmerton Station Road already has a temporary 30mph TRO. This will be made permanent.
Lang Loan is currently 60mph, but with advisory 40mph signs at the twisty dip in the middle. That middle section will have a real 40mph limit, and the eastern section will become 30mph.
Burdiehouse Road will become 30mph.
Stow has just become a 20 mph zone. Fantastic. Amazingly, about 50% of the cars appear to actually be abiding by the new speed limit as well. Some people have recently taken to parking their cars in awkward places on the A7 through the village to get people to slow down.
@nobrakes, that sounds good. Better than Edinburgh where people park in awkward places so that motorists don't have to slow down.
Some more 20mph streets in the pipeline:
That TRO is long awaited! I've been pestering councils about it for years. They voted last October to go ahead, and then in May to fast track it but it's taken until now to actually be advertised. I noticed the actual drawings in the TRO are dated December 2018! https://www.tellmescotland.gov.uk/attachments/16/1602170741/20_07%20Plans.pdf
I'll see if the South Morningside Parent Council can support it, Greenbank Crescent and Cluny Gardens being 20mph will help a lot of families
Now up on the council website at https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/14641/tro2007---various-locations---extension-of-20mph-speed-limit too
I'm not sure how much good it does at this stage but I'm anticipating some pushback so if anyone lives in one of the wards with an affected street and has a moment I'd appreciate them email a comment to trafficorders@edinburgh.gov.uk using the instructions at https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-pavements/view-comment-traffic-orders-new/4?documentId=12973&categoryId=20089 or writing to their councillors to support. https://www.writetothem.com
I helped a friend move some furniture across the city recently (using car club van, my friend driving), and we dutifully tried to keep to the speed limits, which varied along our route.
As neither of us drive at all frequently, one thing that we did notice is that, if you are not familar with a particular route, it is actually quite hard to tell where the speed limit changes: the larger change signs can often easily be hidden by parked vehicles or buses in bus lanes at the exact moment that you need to see them, and painted roundels on the road also aren't particularly visible either if the road is busier. To drive safely, you're usually also more focusing on other people on the road than trying to keep an overly careful eye on signs at the side of the road or below your normal field of view.
You have to continue for a few hundred metres further to be able to definitively check for the presence (or absence) of the repeater signs (some of which may also be blocked from your view) to be sure whether the limit has, or has not, changed, and all at the same time trying to look out for direction signs and junctions where you need to turn.
Obviously we took the stance that we would assume that it was still 20 until we were sure otherwise, but it did make for a slightly more stressful journey than it perhaps should have been. (One thing that might perhaps help a little would be, on faster roads, which often have traffic islands or central traffic lights, for reminder signs to be added to these, as the view of these is less likely to be obstructed?)
I have to say when this all came in I did imagine the "gateways" would be a bit more obvious - red tarmac or mini buildouts or something. The signs seem to get turned round by lorries or buses a lot and the road repeaters aren't always very readable.
This would of course have been easier to deal with if the Scottish Government had reduced the default residential speed limit to 20!
Happened to come across this list of average speeds in 20 limits: https://edinburgh.axlr8.uk/documents/30136/30136%20Response%20Data.pdf
The only two locations I noticed with an average of >30MPH were, slightly surprisingly, Great King Street and, much less surprisingly, Queens Drive.
@ cycle Alex that average of averages is probably 20mph?
Cant explain Gt King St. unless it captures drivers going down the hill? Or accelerating from the lights?
@CycleAlex: Interesting stuff. Falcon Road West is within a whisker of your '30mph club' at 29.6mph. I suspect this might have something to do with the Royal Mail delivery office opposite KwikFit.
Also noted:
- Braid Road south of Braid Hills Road 28.2mph
- Midmar Drive 27.7mph
- Hermitage Drive 25.7mph
All three being key elements of the rat-runs to avoid Comiston Road between Morningside Clock and Greenbank. Drivers speed on rat-runs: that's why they use them. (Also noted that Midmar Drive & Hermitage Drive are not on the list of additional 20mph limits.)
Kilgraston Road 25mph - no surprise to anyone who regularly cycles that way.
No figures for West Savile Terrace: I'd expect it to be on the high side.
Re W Savile Ter, I always thought that, being a 20, it should be narrowed, for cars anyway. They don't use width reduction enough, for speed reduction, I think. It'd need a separate lane for bikes ofc, then. It's like a runway landing strip at the moment, the top half. It'd be much easier for the OAPs to cross too, if the cars were only using the middle third of the width, bound in by rubber kerbs.
Obviously don’t understand Twitter use in Ed.
“
The authors said: "We had anticipated at the outset that this analysis would give insight into the public’s opposition towards 20mph and would assist policymakers in better preparing for such negative responses in the future. This would put policymakers on the front foot in terms of responding to opposition.
"What we found, however, was very little opposition among Twitter users. The findings clearly show that the majority of the public, or at least those who express views on Twitter, are supportive of 20mph and think these schemes should be implemented at scale.
“
Support for Edinburgh’s 20mph speed limits has increased since their introduction, according to research by the universities of St Andrews and Edinburgh.Their study of nearly 3,500 people showed more of them understood why the limit had been reduced from 30mph a year after its implementation, and more said they complied with the lower limit.
Sure would be nice if they actually implemented the TRO for the extension to the 20mph limit (TRO/20/07) which went to consultation last October and was approved by the council in January. It would add another 20 streets including Greenback Crescent/Cluny Gardens/Oxgangs Avenue/etc. I've spoken to councillors several times but they don't know what the hold up is except that the design team is busy.
http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/TRO-20_07-SoR-list-and-statement-of-reasons.pdf
What is there to design? It's not like ECC do proper traffic calming redesigns of roads, they just slap some 20 signs on poles and painted on the ground and call it good.
Believe me, I've made the same point. Baffles me that amongst all the arguing about Spaces for People/etc they have a full TRO to make a change that has been proven to make a difference to road safety for ALL road users AND pedestrians, and has been approved by a public consultation and full council and it's taken them over a year to stick up a few signs and do a little painting. Such an easy win.
I've just snapped and put in an official complaint about TRO/20/07 (expansion of 20mph limit, https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/14994/tro2007-various-locations) which would make Cluny Gardens/Charterhall Road/Greenbank Crescent/Oxgangs Avenue and many more 20mph. Went to full TRO, consultation period, objections discussed at council, etc and then approved at committee in January 2021. Since then complete crickets despite frequent chasing from me and councillors... it's now October 2022 and still nothing has happened. It's just signage (removing existing 20->30 transition signs and adding repeater roundels) and maybe a little road painting. Shouldn't take nearly two years to happen after being approved!
@pringlis - thank you. There is no reasonable excuse for this taking so long. Given this affects roads in the transport convenor's ward, I don't understand how he simply can't just tell the head of place to get it done.
‘Cos he doesn’t have as much power/influence as he imagines??
Consultations on reducing speed limits in urban and rural Edinburgh close today: https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/slowerspeeds/
Pretty quick to fill in, even if the map-based method for making comments about specific streets is a bit fiddly if you want to do more than a couple.
You must log in to post.
Cycling in Edinburgh Flickr group
Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin
posts