That is good, I will go with bus Chiefs over critics any day. People who know what they are talking about are my favourite sort of people.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
"Edinburgh councillors approve 20mph plans"
(423 posts)- Started 9 years ago by spytfyre
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Posted 7 years ago #
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"People who know what they are talking about are my favourite sort of people."
Is that like "experts"?
Posted 7 years ago # -
No that is distinct from experts. Who are often just people with opinions?
Met one today in Scotmid. The lollipop lady I was mentioning previously, she very much knows what she is talking about.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Can you use community payback orders for litter collection?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Neil Greig, head of policy for Scotland at the Institute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), said the number of warnings and fines seemed quite low but said it was important drivers were not alienated from the scheme....the council and the police have to be very careful about this because if they start issuing lots of tickets to people who feel they are driving safely they do lose support for 20mph
Trouble is, people's perception of safe driving from inside a car is very different to those on foot/bike.
Posted 7 years ago # -
it was important drivers were not alienated
Even if they are alienated, what are they going to do?
Go back to having people drive at 40mph past their house?
Complain that they should be allowed to break the law because they are somehow special?
Give up driving? (One can always hope)
Bearing in mind also that the majority of people do not drive in the city.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Edinburgh Council (@Edinburgh_CC)
09/03/2017, 09:22
Why there’s a critical difference between #20mph and 30mph
https://ggwash.org/view/37832/theres-a-critical-difference-between-20-mph-and-30-mph#slowdown #ThursdayThoughts http://pic.twitter.com/4tOlVVes0t
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Manchester halting their scheme as drivers ignore it. Already being approvingly cited by Nick Cook.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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The headline of the Manchester article is misleading.
The council is now freezing the next phase of the roll-out while it sees whether more effective measures could be introduced instead.
By "more effective measures" this could mean speed-humps or other speed reducing measures instead of only paint/signs.
The scheme is only frozen while they evaluate other ideas. It doesn't mean that it won't go ahead eventually, or that it will be rolled back in any way.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Must say, I was impressed walking along Regent Road this morning to observe all traffic in both directions sticking to the 20mph limit.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"all traffic in both directions sticking to the 20mph limit"
Only needs the one in front...
BUT I really get the impression that drivers/traffic (generally) slower/more relaxed now.
Posted 7 years ago # -
feel good about yourself, stick to 20, save the kids, get to work at the same time
Posted 7 years ago # -
It does help that buses are wide and difficult to overtake. If they're doing 20mph (which they are), drivers behind have to too.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Example 2: a car journey at 30mph takes 10 minutes and produces 10 units of pollution; same car, same journey at 20mph takes 15 minutes and would surely produce 15 units of pollution. This is logical, but no, Cllr Hinds states there is “no proof” that travelling for a longer time produces increased pollution, in fact it “reduces pollution”.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
"would surely produce 15 units of pollution"
this, of course, is exactly where he goes wrong. cars don't travel at steady 30mph. they stop and start. and they accelerate/deccelerate more when they do that. and produce more/different pollution.
braking itself produces pollution!
Posted 7 years ago # -
I have been amazed at how quickly every single slight delay is now being attributed to 20mph.
A friend of mind who is a NHS Physio is now convinced that her delays are due to 20mph. Now this might be the case as she goes on to explain that most of the reasons are due to people in cars doing stupid things and causing traffic jams... But yeah they're DOING the stupid things BECAUSE of the 20mph zones.
Posted 7 years ago # -
and would surely produce
which is euphemism for "I have no idea of the exact science, so my opinion is based on simplistic (but flawed) logic."
Here is a presentation given by Ricardo-AEA. These people know what they're talking about, and it's worth reading.
In particular, and as SRD eruditely identified, they state:
"Driving style and gear selection variations result in a much larger variation in fuel consumption than the change in average speed.
Posted 7 years ago # -
feel good about yourself, stick to 20, save the kids, get to work at the same time
And feel considerably more relaxed while you do it (and afterwards too). Driving in 20mph limit is less stressful that driving in a 30mph zone in my experience.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Mentioned elsewhere, doesn't have anyone agreeing with him on Twitter (microcosm of a microcosm).
Posted 7 years ago # -
I think when I next get into a taxi I might say something along the lines of, "I'm not saying that you don't already, but would you mind sticking to the 20mph limits on our journey"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Nick Cook Kiddie Killer
Is a bad handle
Posted 7 years ago # -
You can take all your science and throw it in the bin. Colinmac's mpg has decreased from 31 to 29 since the 20mph limit came in. You can't argue with that.
colinmac likes to contribute to the Evening News comments pages when he his not polluting in 3rd gear.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Perhaps Cllr Cook doesn't understand the ward he is trying to get elected in. 38.5% of households don't have a car. 65.3% travel to work by means other than a car - including the highest proportion of cyclists in Scotland (9.9%) with 27.8% walking.
A big issue for people living near me is the safety of primary school children getting to and from school, as the ward's primaries are all located near major roads. The South Morningside parent council successfully argued for the proposed part-time 20mph on Comiston Road to be made permanent outside of the school. they also argued for streets slated to remain 30mph to be reduced to 20mph at other locations near the school (kids don't teleport to school after all).
Perhaps he can explain how scrapping the 20mph limit will help protect our children? If the argument is "obviously, I wouldn't scrap it there", then please explain which 20mph streets aren't used by children getting to school or other vulnerable road users - or don't they deserve protection?
Stats: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/2945/census_2011_-_edinburgh_wards.pdf
Posted 7 years ago # -
Morningsider: Nick Cook has been asked specifically which 20mph streets he objects to. His response was "It's not about me". He turned up to the Braid Drive consultation recently and supported 20mph there.
Every Tory councillor is avoiding the question of which 20mph streets they would return to 30mph. I have an email from their own former group leader, Jeremy Balfour, confirming that that he had asked for extra streets in his ward to be made 20mph.
Cook says that he wants a "review" but he's playing along people to make then think the Tories will scrap the scheme.
Rather awkwardly for them, one or their MSPs wrote an article about 20mph which specifically backs the Edinburgh approach to choosing 20mph streets.
They should be targeted at roads that are primarily residential and on streets where pedestrian and cyclist movements are high such as around schools, shops, markets, playgrounds and other areas – or where a specific hazard requires a specific solution.
Posted 7 years ago # -
good points Morningsider
I'd add secondary schools too. Kilgraston road is hooching with gangs of schools kids walking (and a few cycling) to school at 8am and again at 3.30pm..Pavements are too narrow for them all. Now it's 20mph , and drivers often seem to be compliant to 20mph it's much safer. It would be a prime candidate under Councillor Cook's bizarre logic to be upped to 30mph again.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Kilgraston road is hooching with gangs of schools kids walking (and a few cycling) to school at 8am and again at 3.30pm..Pavements are too narrow for them all.
Sadly, the Marchmont to Kings Buildings route 'cycling improvements' does not seem to be widening the pavements on Kilgraston Rd - which is a major failing IMH(humble)O
See: http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=13536&page=3#post-243894
Posted 7 years ago # -
While driving the car up Mayfield Road the other evening I had the novel experience of being overtaken on the left by multiple bikes. I suspect my car's speedo of overstating the speed but even so I was quite impressed
Posted 7 years ago #
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