CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
stickyCllr Cook (as far as I can work out) wants fewer streets to be 20mph, but for 20mph to be the speed limit wherever there is a "local need". I can only assume that, were he to get his way, the map of 20 mph streets in Edinburgh would look a lot like a Jackson Pollock painting.
He also attacks the current, "blanket", 20mph plan as being too "confusing".
I really cannot figure out how he holds these two views simultaneously.
blindly proceeds with the scheme without regard for the experience of other UK local authorities
Upthread, sallyhinch mentioned the positive evidence she from Cardiff presented at a 20mph conference. Is this the experience Cllr Cook is referring to?
"more effective road safety measures.”.
This apparently means better junctions and crossings. Which is great, but does nothing for the stretches of road between them.
I also saw Cllr Doggart complaining about the council using kids in their new promotional material. He said "Kids doing what they are told. Children have no concept of speed" - exactly why the lower limits are needed.
The Tories are tying themselves in knots over this; any attempt to pin them down is batted away with "we want a review".
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Nick Cook (@CllrNickCook)
13/07/2017, 10:57 am
@LAHinds @RangiRevo @ProfScottThinks @EdinburghTories As opposed to your approach which sets 'criteria' then basically just applies *almost* everywhere. Like a blanket *almost* covers whole body
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Scottish YES TORIES (@YesTories)
13/07/2017, 11:22 am
@ProfScottThinks Car engines are not efficient at 20 mph. More pollution as result.
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The Tories are increasingly desperate on this issue.
Obviously they must be in favour of more deaths and serious injuries due to road collisions. As long as their core vote can cruise their Jags and Beamers at 35mph and get to the golf club that essential two minutes earlier, then death and maiming is a price worth paying, clearly.
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Councillor Jo Mowat (@jomowat)
13/07/2017, 10:37 pm
@PidginPosting @CyclingEdin @ProfScottThinks Let's see what the survey says and whether there has been behavioural change and then assess if this was right way to improve road safety
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Pidgin Post (@PidginPosting)
13/07/2017, 11:26 pm
@jomowat @CyclingEdin @ProfScottThinks Transport Scotland policy is that road changes can't be assessed until 3-4 years of data in place. Shall we wait for that?
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[20mph] applies *almost* everywhere
Nick is being disingenuous here. The point about an arterial system, with arteries at 30mph and "thinner" veins at 20mph, is that the optimum solution is to have only a few arteries covering the area, with "*almost* everywhere" else being veins.
Nature shows us the optimum solution in the human body.
I don't have the technical skills, but I'd like to overlay the 20mph map over the primary school catchment maps on the council website. Could then go to individual Conservative councillors and ask "if 20mph is OK for around schools then where exactly would you draw the line?"
20mph might be a layer on CEC online map.
Presume catchments will be.
20mph map:
Schools map:
Sadly not integrated.
Catchments are on the main CEC atlas: https://edinburghcouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9dfa229ba4004f7ca642ed3bd9702094
20mph layer doesn't seem to be available there, but is here: http://edinburghcouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ca131eddb0084197b160edbbad2ca8c7
Overlaying the two shouldn't be too tricky, but for some reason the layers in the main atlas aren't working for me at the moment.
EDIT: Soundly beaten by Ed, who has also posted a link to the school maps which actually works.
Worth contacting whoever does CEC on-line stuff.
Clearly worth having these two layers integrated.
Worth contacting whoever does CEC on-line stuff.
Done (I think, might not have got the right email address). Will update if I hear anything.
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NICE recommends urban speed reduction for better air quality. NICE guidance says 20mph limits without physical measures in urban areas help “avoid unnecessary acceleration and deceleration”.
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Clearly worth having these two layers integrated.
Will hopefully be done in the next few weeks.
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Councillor Lesley Macinnes, Convener of Transport and Environment for the City of Edinburgh Council writes for us on the need for traffic to slow down and for drivers to take heed of the 20 mph speed limits.
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http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2017/07/edinburgh-councillor-blogs-councillor-lesley-macinnes/
West Edinburgh 20mph now in operation - has anyone noticed any difference yet?
Also John MacLellan cries "war on the motorist"
"...in theory it’s correct that someone knocked over at 20mph is less likely to die than someone hit at 30mph".
Utter bilge - that's not a theory, it's fact.
"With traffic volumes continuing to rise in 2016 and bike use actually falling"
More bilge. The most recent local authority level modal spilt statistics available are for 2015. Even if that wasn't the case, Scottish Household Survey figures for cycling are always a bit flakey if you look at year on year changes, due to small sample sizes. This is why two-year averages are used. The latest two available for trips to work being:
2012/13: 6.6%
2014/15: 10%
Cycling to work is not falling, it is massively increasing.
Details available at: https://www.transport.gov.scot/our-approach/statistics/#42764
John McLellan is a Scottish newspaper journalist, former editor of The Scotsman and Scottish Conservative Party media chief.
It's not a surprising tactic from McLellan. Bicycles are clearly only used by poor people, and Conservatives aren't keen on them.
Actually it's a weirder and more contrarian position than that. I emailed Mr MacLellan before the local elections and he was pleased to inform me that he was a cyclist and used the path network to get down to meetings at Victoria Quay...
he was pleased to inform me that he was a cyclist and used the path network to get down to meetings at Victoria Quay...
He has a nice safe route so what are people complaining about? I'm alright Jack.
It sounds like he's probably a segregationist. Paths for bicycles, roads for cars.
One of the many problems with segregation is of course the creation of ghettos.
@stickman "West Edinburgh 20mph now in operation - has anyone noticed any difference yet?"
If the cars going up and down Clermiston Road are anything to go by, no difference that I can see. Early days though. Saying that, many of the new 20mph signs are obscured by vegetation - top work by the council.
It's clear that John McLellan has never been passed by a car travelling at 30mph and at 20mph whilst cycling. Personally the difference is night and day, as being passed at 20mph is much less frightening.
"many of the new 20mph signs are obscured by driver's tunnel vision and wanton mulishness"
FTFY
Meant to post this the other day -
The issue with segragationism as I see it is that it has to be an all or nothing solution. The cycle paths have to be at least as good as the roads (ie space for at least 2 riders in each direction) and as numerous as the roads.
Of course if there isn't space for both cars and bikes then there might be space for shared use paths but the cars need to be fitted with competent drivers before they could be trusted to share the space.
selective segregationism can't work in an urban environment.
@acsimpson
There is no need to segregate everything. Most streets can be made no-through-routes to traffic:
https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2017/08/16/the-makings-of-a-successful-cycle-street/
The remaining arteries can have wide, well-maintained segregated lanes.
As IWRATS alludes with his "ghettos", it is a bad idea to segregate everything, because then those "quieter" segregated routes will not be adequately maintained (by virtue of maintenance overload on the council's part) or will be compromised in some other way e.g. width.
But yes, there should be segregated routes on the arteries. They should receive the same maintenance as expected of the road i.e. adequate cleaning, vegetation clearance, repairs, etc. They should be wide. There should be no advantage to a faster cyclist by taking the road.
There is a separate path that runs from old glenmorangie turn before Broxburn up to newbridge. About a mile long beside the A89 but set back. Much of this is I think inside Edinburgh boundary but I always forget to count it.
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