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"Edinburgh councillors approve 20mph plans"

(330 posts)

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  1. acsimpson
    Member

    neddie, I'm not disagreeing with iwrats, although it may have sounded like it. You've highlighting the reasons why my utopia of segregation can't work and would simply lead to the poor incompetent driverists getting confused and asking cyclists why they aren't using the cycle path while they themselves are driving along it.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    "There is a separate path that runs from old glenmorangie turn before Broxburn up to newbridge. About a mile long beside the A89 but set back. "

    Yep, used it many a time, most recently in June. Could do with resurface in places, and when it meets side entrances it's crap. Otherwise it's not bad.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  3. Rob
    Member

    @neddie, the lack of parked cars on that street is striking! I'd love to know how the off-street parking per residence compares to parts of Edinburgh.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  4. Stickman
    Member

  5. chdot
    Admin

  6. Stickman
    Member

    Robert Aldridge on 20mph:

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/robert-aldridge-let-s-put-the-brakes-on-this-20mph-zone-fiasco-1-4536223

    Headline is very different from the content:

    So while the general policy and expected reductions in road injuries is right, we need to pay attention to getting the details right and be prepared to make changes sooner rather than later.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  7. Frenchy
    Member

    Headline is very different from the content:

    Indeed.

    My own view is that main roads should be 30 (or 40mph where appropriate) to attract traffic away from rat runs and to allow a reasonable driving speed for taxis and other road users especially late at night.

    Does anyone know if accident rates (per journey) are higher, lower or just the same during the day and during the night? Quieter streets, but lowered visiblity and pedestrians at night may be less focused. As may the drivers.

    Speed limits also aren't the only ways of limiting rat running, of course.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  8. Stickman
    Member

    ...And his complaint about signage could be resolved by a national default 20mph limit, with signs on the main roads he wants kept at 30/40.

    I'm amused by people who complain about "unsightly" road signs but ignore the cars that require them to be there.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  9. Morningsider
    Member

    "But can I ask gently and calmly that when a cyclist uses a pavement they dismount and walk with the bike if there are pedestrians about, or use the road."

    Will that be one of the roads where you have asked for the speed limit be increased to 30mph?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  10. neddie
    Member

    pedestrians at night may be less focused

    By that, I presume you mean drunk.

    I reckon there are a lot of pedestrian injuries and deaths due to drivers hitting intoxicated pedestrians.

    So yes, 20mph should most definitely apply at night, and be enforced.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  11. HankChief
    Member

    @stickman - Figure 6.1 in this does show that absolute number of pedestrian injuries by time of day.

    http://www.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk/downloads/file/59/pedestrian_incident_analysis_report_2004-2010

    But given the lower volumes this would mean a higher likelihood if it was expressed per journey.

    I seem to remember a chart with this on my I can't find it.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  12. Frenchy
    Member

    Thanks, that's useful.

    65% of pedestrian injuries occurred during daylight hours compared to 35% in the dark.

    I find it easy to believe that less than a third of pedestrian journeys are done after dark. Which (if true) would mean that a pedestrian is more likely to be injured if they are walking at night than if they are walking during the day.

    So there's certainly an argument to be made that speed limits are just as important at night.

    EDIT: I found an article called "The risk of walking" by Goodwin and Hutchison. It's from 1977, but has this graph:

    which shows that pedestrian accidents follow time spent walking fairly closely, but the rate per walking time is higher at night than during the day.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Councillor Nick Cook, Conservative transport spokesman, said the figures raise further questions over the decision to roll out 20mph speed limits across the city over the past year.

    Edinburgh City Council transport convenor Lesley MacInnes said last night: “Our own research has shown support for the [20mph] scheme, which will not only make our roads safer, but will create a quieter, more relaxed atmosphere on streets.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-drivers-crawl-through-their-commute-at-just-6-64mph-1-4550941

    Posted 8 months ago #
  14. Nick thinks 'road improvements' will 'ease congestion'. Maybe for the first day or two, but after that we'd see good old induced demand bringing us right back to where we started.

    "Hey Senga - yon Cook's had thon roads improved 'n' there's no sae much congestion. Ah kin start drivin' tae work again and ah wullnae be late like afore!"

    ** shimmering to indicate passage of 2 weeks **

    "That Cook's a bliddy liar - it's ta'en us twice as long as it did tae get tae work than it did afore. Ah've been sacked fir bein' late every day noo fir the last week'n'a hauf!"

    Posted 8 months ago #
  15. urchaidh
    Member

    The level of transport related demagoguery, especially from Cook and McLellan, is truly appalling.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  16. neddie
    Member

  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. Stickman
    Member

  19. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Transport and Environment Convener Councillor Lesley Macinnes will welcome the riders to the GlowRide and say a few words to commemorate the completion of the 20mph rollout.

    Glow forth and multiply, Gyrator?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  20. HankChief
    Member

    I think it is a great idea. The Helix park Glow Ride was great for the kids. They loved lighting up their bike and seeing everyone else do the same

    But... (from Eventbrite blurb)

    "Cyclists of all ages and abilities are invited to bring their hi-vis, glow-in-the-dark accessories and lights for a three-mile led ride starting at the City Chambers"

    and

    "Riders must be aged 12 and over"

    Ho hum. (Doesn't mean that the 20mph rollout isn't a great thing).

    Posted 3 months ago #
  21. acsimpson
    Member

    What about passengers?

    Posted 3 months ago #
  22. teddybears
    Member

    Edinburgh's 20mph is not promoted to reduce accidents

    Posted 3 months ago #
  23. Ed1
    Member

    Not promoted to reduce accidents ? I always assumed safety that is what 20 mph is for but never looked at the detail, so it does not decrease air pollution, not promoted for safety what is it promoted for?

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20243/20mph_for_edinburgh/1024/about_20mph_for_edinburgh

    Posted 3 months ago #
  24. dougal
    Member

    Cyclists of all ages are invited but those less than twelve will be told where to go.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  25. toomanybikes
    Member

    Ed1 it does have huge impact on road safety. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-43050841

    The decision for 20mph zones was surely a combination of making active travel safer and more pleasant, not either or.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  26. teddybears
    Member

    it was to promote active travel. It was not an accident reduction project.

    A reduction in accidents may or may not be achieved .( There seems to have been quite a few accidents recently) but that is yet to be proved and I'm sceptical that it can be.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  27. amir
    Member

    I wonder what the levels of speed have been over this change. I suspect, based on suspect anecdotal experience, that speeds dropped quite a bit but then rose significantly as drivers realise there is no enforcement.

    It's disappointing that the government doesn't think that this is important enough to resource extra police for random speed checks or to put in speed cameras.
    It's even more disappointing that drivers are so willing to break the law.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  28. Stickman
    Member

    "...so willing to break the law"

    Some will tell you that they are *forced* to break the law

    Posted 3 months ago #
  29. jdanielp
    Member

    @Ed1 it should decrease air pollution: less acceleration should help reduce fuel consumption, less braking reduces brake wear and less acceleration, braking and lower speed reduces tyre wear.

    Posted 3 months ago #
  30. jdanielp
    Member

    @amir I'm starting to question what has actually changed. There was a time last year when many people seemed to be driving slower than they used to in 20 mph areas. I would say that the proportion of slower drivers has now dropped.

    Posted 3 months ago #

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