CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Paying for Sunday parking will kill the city centre

(18 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from PS

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  1. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    The Say No to 20 FB page has a new bête noir, parking charges apparently will be coming in on a Sunday. Now, it is expensive to park in Edinburgh, I do think that's entirely true, but then that's why, when there's an option, you're better on the bus or train or bike (such a statement would, of course, be met with the usual 'but I need to take the car' - which in probably 75% of cases isn't true (and the bus will also be cheaper than the parking, puts no wear and tear on the car, uses none of your fuel, and takes only a little longer when you factor in having to find a parking space).

    But all of that apart, there was a nagging thought that I had to post on their page. Thusly.

    "Out of interest, as having to pay for parking will 'kill' the city centre, does that mean that there is no-one in the city centre shopping on a Saturday? It would be interesting to have some comparative figures for visitors, customers etc etc between Saturday and Sunday. If it's such a death knell then I would expect Saturday shopping in the city centre to be virtually non-existent. Anyone got the details?"

    Anyone know if those details are out there? (because let's face it, we all know that Edinburgh city centre isn't a wasteland on a Saturday).

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. SRD
    Moderator

    nice point.

    what i was mulling for a blogpost: the reason they need to charge/otherwise control parking on Sunday is because so many people do it, the city is rapidly becoming unmanageable/unnavigable. because really, for most people, sunday is undistinguishable from saturday.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Some odd comments as well where people simply state something as fact. Someone said that the council should look at Aberdeen where parking is cheaper, and everyone shops in the city centre.

    Well, they maybe have, given Aberdeen has had Sunday parking charges for at least 12 years (I got a ticket at a time I remember rather clearly). Also Aberdeen doesn't have a 'proper' out of town centre like Fort Kinnaird (it's got a couple in the city centre which are absolutely hooching, especially the new Union Square, and both charge for parking....).

    A 'George Street restaurant manager' has stated that his Sunday takings will plummet as people come in on a Sunday specifically because it's free to park - so he seemed the perfect person to ask about takings on a Saturday in comparison...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. LivM
    Member

    I think it's generally a good idea to charge for Sunday parking. I wouldn't take my car into the centre on a Sunday for shopping at the moment because I am 99% sure I would take a very long time to find a space.

    I do feel sympathy for the churches though as Sunday parking would affect their congregations. As an occasional bell ringer at St Andrew and St George's West, I would be most put off going to ring on Sunday if I had to pay to park.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. Charlethepar
    Member

    It is expensive to park in Edinburgh, but the spaces in town are still more than optimally full, leaving the marginal parker with a long search for a space. Charging for parking is a way of matching supply and demand. On the very rare occassions I take a car into town, I would rather pay more and have a space available, than potentially pay less for spaces that aren't there.

    On Sundays, parking is free, which both blocks the free movement of many raods, and means that it can be very difficult to find a "free" space to actually park in. That's the problem with things being free.

    I expect their next theme will be that parking permits are overpriced. The evidence usually advanced for this point of view is that since there are more permits than spaces, the price should be lower. Doh!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The carmageddon that results from the lack of enforcement of yellow lines etc. on a Sunday is exactly the reason why they need to enforce it.

    I wonder if any Edinburgh business has ever bothered to canvass their clientele to see how many of them drive in and park (and only because it's free), vs. those that walk, bus, train and - don't you know it - even cycle.

    If people are only coming to your business because it's free to park outside, you probably want to improve your wares.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. Charlethepar
    Member

    I am a bit bemused by the "but what about the churches" argument about Sunday free parking. I have never understood why so many people drive across town to a church that slightly better matches their preference for style of service, even where there is a church of the same denomination near to their home. Surely part of the point of a church is to build community.

    In any case, the Muslims manage to get to their mosque on a Friday, and they have no alternatives around town. Similarly, the Synagogue seems to function. So why should the Christain churches, who have the most distributed network of places of worship, expect special treatment?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. SRD
    Moderator

    @livD I just don't see how we can justify that argument given that we don't provide free parking to congregations and faiths that worship on Fridays and Saturdays.

    Given these churches are in the city centre which is well served by transport options, shouldn't we expect them to be able to use those?

    In oxford where city centre parking is practically non-existent, churches often arrange for their congregations to drop off the elderly/infirm and then park in nearby school parking lot.

    I'd also like to think this might prove a bonus to many smaller churches whose parishioners don';t worship in them, but go to the 'big' churches in town. boosting their congregations would be a huge benefit.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. Morningsider
    Member

    I assume the No to 20 mph people just haven't found the time to read the relevant council papers on this issue. The proposal isn't to introduce Sunday parking charges, but to enforce yellow lines etc on a Sunday, as badly parked cars are snarling up the roads.

    Details: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/45761/item_73_-_delivering_the_lts_-_parking_action_plan_update

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. SRD
    Moderator

    I have some sympathy with them there. I can't make head or tail out of that report. Certainly not clear to me what 'controlled parking' means in this context.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    And in extra fairness the ire has come from an EEN article which doesn't make it clear either (there's a surprise).

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. Morningsider
    Member

    SRD - yes, it's not clear. However, two church Ministers gave evidence to the Council's Transport and Environment Committee last week. Lesley Hinds clearly stated that there were no plans to introduce Sunday parking charges (I heard this while listening in for the 20mph debate).

    Funnily enough, that wasn't reported by the EEN.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I'd be all for getting the Monday - Saturday enforcement sorted out before we start worrying about Sundays!

    By which I mean, most of the effort of the council wardens appears to be towards "revenue protection" rather than one of public safety, in that they are very officious and efficient about persons parking in pay-and-display or residents bays, but we've got the age old problem of them having no powers over double parking and they don't seem particularly concerned about people "just popping into the shops" on double yellows.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    @morningsider - yeah i heard that too and was puzzled

    @kaputnik and of course, one causes the other. parents dropping off kids at schools will NOT stop in empty bays, so they double park, or hover half-in/half-out and block traffic in front and behind them. had a classic case of this last week - driver of a very new swish looking rangerover completely stopped all traffic along Montpelier. one of the vehicles blocked tried to reverse in order to let another car through, unfortunately i had just emerged from school playground entrance and got on my bike behind them...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. Fountainbridge
    Member

    Greens have asked for a report from council officials about parking enforcement - should be due this month. I agree with enforcement more about revenue protection rather than safety. The pedestrian zones in the city centre are a joke at the moment with absolutely no enforcement. No revenue from these spaces anyway.

    Can't be that difficult to expand Saturday enforcement to Sundays.

    With regards to Sunday parking, how many of the city centre spaces are taken up by shop workers? They drive in early, park all day for free, then drive home again. No opportunity for those same shops to earn revenue by car drivers going shopping.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. SRD
    Moderator

    @fountainbridge. indeed like leith walk used to be. turnover is what is needed.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. AKen
    Member

    With regards to yellow-line enforcement, maybe people have lost sight of what the lines are there for - to avoid the roads getting blocked by parked cars and to improve safety. Sunday parking was allowed on the lines because Sunday was a much quieter day with less traffic - because there were far fewer places open. This rationale clearly flew right out of the window sometime in the 80s and Sunday is now just as busy - in retail terms - as any other day, if not more. I recently got the 44 bus through town early one Sunday afternoon. It took an age, mainly because of all the parked cars taking up an entire lane on almost every street.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. PS
    Member

    Of course, enforcing the yellow lines should have the knock-on benefit of protecting (or even generating) revenue as a real fear of a parking ticket would lead these yellow liners to park in a pay and display bay...

    Posted 10 years ago #

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