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Cycling with Children

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    Okay, so having introduced this theme to every other thread, I have taken up the challenge of starting a new thread on the off-chance that someone other than me is interested.

    We currently use a child seat and were somewhat restricted in finding one that would fit both a large men's frame and small woman's frame. My main complaint is that you can't carry panniers as well - and I can't ride with a backpack while child is in seat. So getting stuff (lunch, papers) to work is a challenge. Unfortunately, small person is also threatening to grow out of it.

    We've been offered a used trailer and will probably try that in the New Year so we can take a friend home as well. But I'm not that keen on (eg) taking a trailer across Holy Corner (Merchiston Ave to Chamberlain Rd). I'd really like a Kangaroo bike, but the cost seems prohibitive, and I worry that the small wheels/gears would make getting up hills a challenge (good blog post here on a kangaroo in Scotland).

    And then, of course, there is the trailer-bike (invented by a Canadian!). This seems fine for pootling about on the weekend, but I am less than convinced that my 3 year old would be happy holding on during our usual cold wet night-time ride home. Advice/experiences much appreciated.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    We used rear seat until about 4 then trailerbike. (They had own bikes as well from 3ish).

    That was before these existed.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  3. HibeeBiker
    Member

    As you no doubt know already SRD, cycling with kids is one of these things you make a judgement on - just like cycling on your own. Do the benefits outweigh the dangers?

    Ride with the kids where it feels fine and don't feel bad about getting off at busy junctions. I don't think any cyclist has been shot in Bruntsfield yet.

    http://road.cc/content/news/11382-driver-gets-four-months-jail-shooting-cyclist

    My own happy experience was to use a childseat till the bairn was too big (aged 5) and I no longer felt in complete control of the bike.

    I've since used a trailer with grandbairns and discovered to my pleasant surprise that passing traffic leave lots of room.

    I've used a trailer bike for 5-8 year olds and they're fun and engaging too.

    Hamax do a modular child seat system that can be used with panniers, but it's no cheap and it sounds like you might only get a year out of it.

    http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f%5FProductID=9661&f%5FFullProductVersion=1&f%5FSupersetQRY=C372&f%5FSortOrderID=1&f%5Fbct=c003154c007288

    Sounds like borrowing the used trailer and seeing how you get on might be your best bet. It solves the problem of carrying bairn + all your stuff too. Hope this helps.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    APOLOGIES

    This thread seems to be misbehaving

    Some posts are being 'hidden' and I can't figure how to stop it.

    I will cut and paste as necessary

    UPDATE - Thanks to Kim I now know how to sort the 'missing' posts problem

    Posted 14 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    POSTED BY Kim

    Bike trailers are popular on the continent and I have friends who have used then for ferrying their children about, but then again they live in more cycle friendly paces.

    I have seen some using a "Follow Me Bicycle" in Edinburgh, it looks like much better option that the Glider tagalong, although a wee bit more expensive.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  6. Kim
    Member

    Just found this which maybe of interest.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    and http://www.sustrans.org.uk/assets/files/leaflets/sustrans_cyclingwithchildren_March08.pdf

    Posted 14 years ago #

  8. SRD
    Moderator

    The hamax seat doesn't fit on my seat post. I saw one on a bike at work last week and it definitely needed a very high seat post (and long legs). Our problem with the seat we have is mainly leg room - I am already basically sitting on her knees when I cycle. I wouldn't be a problem if I was taller. I may try and put the seat up a bit anyway. It will be a bit easier in spring when she is less bundled up, but by next autumn no way her feet will fit in little stirrups.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  9. effemm
    Member

    We also started off with a child seat (a Rhode Gear Taxi) which clipped onto a Blackburn rack and thus fitted both mum & dad's bikes, but also removed the ability to use panniers. We seemed to get away with a small rucsack, at any rate we didn't hear the complaints from behind! Mounting lights on the rear of the seat was always a source of annoyance to me, and I ended up with a Heath Robinson arrangement of zip ties and rubber bands.

    Picked up a second-hand trailer when #2 came along and was old enough to travel by bike. It's been a joy to use (he's 2 3/4 now), but we're lucky in that all our key locations (home, work, nursery, grandma) are pretty close to a cycle path. Acceleration is so slow that busy junctions are nerve-wracking at best, and evasive action is practically impossible. I'm not sure how the Kangaroo bike would help that, but what would be nice is the ability to talk to the kids - they feel very remote (and even more vulnerable somehow) when I can't talk to them as we pedal along.

    One downside, incidentally, of the trailer on cycle paths at this time of year is that the whole thing gets liberally coated in leaf mulch and general crap off the back wheel, cycle paths being cleared at somewhat "generous" intervals.

    On the other hand, and in more clement weather, you can easily take a trailer round the green loop (and parts of the blue) at Glentress. The kids love it, it's all humps and bumps and tight corners through the trees, and there are picnic stops too.

    My eldest is 5 1/2 now, so it's a bit of a tight squeeze in there. She has a bike, and indeed *had* a like-a-like-a-bike, but never really took too it, alas. I'm wondering about a trailer bike for her but that would preclude the simultaneous use of the bike seat, so I wouldn't be able to haul both of them.

    I test-rode a Christiania a few years ago, that seemed like a good, flexible solution (I also do the shopping with the current trailer) but it's pretty expensive and - erm - entertaining cornering when empty.

    Phew, didn't mean to go on so long!

    Posted 14 years ago #

  10. effemm
    Member

    @chdot, thanks for the Follow Me Bicycle tip, that may well be the way forward for us...

    Posted 14 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    @effemm

    "thanks for the Follow Me Bicycle tip"

    actually re-posting Kim (software failure)

    UPDATE or me failure. I know know how to fix 'problem'.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  12. SRD
    Moderator

    I do like being able to talk while she is in bikeseat -- although we get weird looks from pedestrians (esp when she is adlibbing lyrics to songs), and would miss this with trailer. That's definitely a big bit of the appeal of the Kangaroo/Christiania for me.

    Lights on childseat - why these are so difficult ? We managed to screw on a good light where the reflector was, but I constantly worry it will come off (someone pinched one believe it or not. But for 3rd birthday she received a little wee red helmet light, which is good for added visibility.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  13. Kim
    Member

    One the subject of Kid and Bikes I just have to post this from Copenhagen cycle chic, who that inspires you all.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  14. spytfyre
    Member

    OK I will have to ferry my wee yin to Nursery nexy year, he's three. How long will I get out of a hundred quid for
    http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/ebwPNLqrymode.a4p?f%5FProductID=9661&f%5FFullProductVersion=1&f%5FSupersetQRY=C372&f%5FSortOrderID=1&f%5Fbct=c003154c007288
    that?
    Should I look for a cheap trailer (which I am frankly terrified of the Gorgie/Dalry juntion I would have to contend with) as I think it will be a good few years before he can ride a bike or sit securely on the tag-along bikes...

    Posted 14 years ago #

  15. gembo
    Member

    spytfyre - the Hamax thing is maybe already heading towards being on the small side for a three year old boy (assuming normal sizes etc). Trailers are not so safe on roads, at junctions. I was given a really old tag along, which was basically a BMX without front wheel stuck on a pole with no manouverability. I was cycling it home the first day I was given it and two kids ran out into the middle of the road from between two parked cars without looking and knocked me off. Fortunately, I had no wee one on the back as I was only taking it home and of course I did have my helmet on. Despite it being pretty crap I used it a lot on the Water of Leith path. Can you find a longer but safer route to the nursery? The City of Edinburgh Council produce some great maps (seven in the series) showing different parts of edinburgh and the traffic free routes thereof with all schools marked on [but not private nurseries alas]. They are a bit bigger than standard for bikemaps (that's why there are seven, they are free so apart from deforestation this is not huge issue) so they are really easy to read, which not surprisingly makes it easier to work out the route.

    The new tag alongs are much better than my bmx on a pole.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  16. LaidBack
    Member

    As you may have seen on another thread I ended up going the tandem route once my daughter became 5. (Before that it was Rhode seat on old Edinburgh Contour with front panniers to spread weight).

    First tandem was Thorn Voyager childback version - now sold on at good price. Advantage was the security of all being on the one vehicle. Disadvantege was that it was too long to get up my stairs or on newer trains!

    So...

    Have had a Bernds tandem for last 7 years which is as compact and adjustable as a two person bike can be I reckon. My 15 year old daughter still uses (when no-one's looking!). Seriously though in a busy city it feels pretty secure. Not cheap but we don't have a car. Fully geared with Hope disc on front. Current Bernds info.
    http://www.bernds.de/folding-tandem.html
    Amsterdam trikes may appeal but I don't think 7 speeds would be enough and some bike paths too narrow.

    This Circe Helios tandem is a new cheaper version of the Bernds idea. 20 inch wheels with Big Apples are pretty sturdy too.
    http://www.cyclecentric.com/store/bikes/family-utility/circe/helios-tandem/brut

    Can carry two Rhode bike seats and convert back to tandem which can accomodate adults too.

    So although expensive it might offer use for all family members over the years. Entry level Helios price is £895 - extras would put over.

    No idea whether any have been sold yet. Very new to market. BikeFix have one in London.

    Unlike Bernds I don't think it folds.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  17. SRD
    Moderator

    Is it possible for two people of very different size to ride a tandem? There's over a foot in height between myself and husband, and a substantial weight disparity. We tried to cycle to Zambia once on a tandem and had to turn around and go back, because it just didn't work (Luckily we were just across the border :). I could not handle not being able to see anything (much less steer - yes I am a control freak), and the guys who configured the bike seemed to think big person needed to be in front.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  18. SRD
    Moderator

    Spytfyre, There are always lots of second hand bike seats at Polwarth nearly new sales -- which judging by your route, is just across the park from you! But, as gembo says, they are small on a 3 year old. My three year old just fits in her heavy winter gear, but she is quite tall for her age. So, it won't do you for more than a year. But, in good weather, despite a bad route, we've found it surprisingly good fun -- especially because you can have nice conversations.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  19. LaidBack
    Member

    Is it possible for two people of very different size to ride a tandem?

    Almost always the case. The tandems that I've linked to have huge amount of adjust to allow almost anyone to use them.

    Is best for heavier person to go at front. I do realise that it's not easy to let someone else 'take control'. Children don't seem to mind.

    Tandems can be ridden solo too - my point being that they can make a great multi-task vehicle.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  20. SRD
    Moderator

    I think the issue of being able to see is still going to be a problem for us. Maybe we can try one of yours sometime. But I have trouble seeing past him, even when we're just cycling one behind the other! I do very much like the looks of the Circe Helios tandem though -- the ability to carry a seat and back panniers would definitely have made the past two years easier.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  21. LaidBack
    Member

    Tandem riding isn't a skill that is immediate. My wife now can go on bike with me without worrying too much!

    I think you need a few hours on quiet roads.

    In fact when I was down in York I got a lift on the back of the Velo Vision editor's tandem. (I had taken a bike down for review and needed a lift back to station!)
    After about 10 minutes I started to relax.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "Can carry two Rhode bike seats and convert back to tandem which can accomodate adults too."

    So how much of the carrying capacity remains when there is a rear rider too?

    Posted 14 years ago #

  23. LaidBack
    Member

    Answer should be two pedalling and one in child seat.

    Not sure if that is case yet. If not then bike will miss an opportunity.

    Thorn Voyager is good at that sort of thing. In fact is was a woman that used a Thorn to cycle with her two kids up the High Street to the City Chambers that was kind enough to give me info in the pre-internet days. Thorn takes standard Blackburn rack. Small wheeled bikes need custom racks.

    Here's bit in VV. They hope to review next issue.

    Click to get wording.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  24. spytfyre
    Member

    Thanks for the info folks.
    Gemob: No there is no other route. I have to get from Harrison Rd to Tynecastle Nursery through the Gorgie/Dalry junction unfortunately. Handy that I don't have to follow the one way system and can nip down Ardmillan and cut the corner on the handy bike lane that cuts over the path...
    SRD: a second hand seat would do nicely, I think I shall have a lookg on gumtree/freegle as well as the nearly new sales stuff. Certainly tempted with a front loading cargo bike that could have a harness so I can keep an eye on the little guy...
    I don't think my cycle to work scheme will cover it though :(

    Posted 14 years ago #

  25. SRD
    Moderator

    Spytfyre, Let me know if you want to try our seat out. If on your bike, it needs a Blackburn rack to fit to. but could easily meet at HP or similar. SRD

    Posted 14 years ago #

  26. gembo
    Member

    Spytfyre, I know the very handy bike lane you mean at bottom of Ardmillan. You then have a right turn down McLeod St that I do not like either. THis will be made marginally worse in the new year when Tynecastle High School opens (7th Jan) across the road and all the school pupils will be crossing the street. Traffic free out the canal to the aqueduct, down the bike chute, round the river to Murrayfield, on to the cycle path at roseburn, up the stairs onto the high path then down towards Russell Road (apart from being totally preposterous) still leaves tricky right turn under the railway on to Russell Road.

    Posted 14 years ago #

  27. SRD
    Moderator

    On a sort of related note (had been thinking of need for a thread on cyclepath names) is there a name for the path that runs from just after meggetland around to the back of slateford station? (ie traffic free route to ASDA). At the slateford end, it is labelled 'meggetgate' (but appears to just relate to the station road bit), and there appears to be a cycle path sign on Allan Park Road, but not actually at Meggetgate. (none of my cycle maps covers this area).

    Posted 14 years ago #

  28. spytfyre
    Member

    SRD that would be ace, sometime in the early new year would be best after all the Christmas kerfuffle is by...
    Gembo - yep but that is an awfy long way for a short cut to avoid one right hand turn onto McLeod St and involves adding in a right off Russell Rd. which is not a fun turn either...

    Posted 14 years ago #

  29. chdot
    Admin

    Related topic

    Posted 14 years ago #

  30. gembo
    Member

    Yes sorry about that route spytfyre. I am looking at going the long way round as the council is kicking us out our office in Leith (they have a bizarre idea they can sell the building). Then they are moving us to a hole in the ground in Chesser and that is too close for me, I am thinking of going out to Livingston first to keep my miles up.

    SRD, I like that wee path down to ASDA, it has a nice sweep to it. But how long should a path bebefore it can have a name? I tried one in Slateford last summer that started over the road from Diggers and went through Shandon, but it ended at the railway track and a big fence, it was completely pointless.

    Posted 14 years ago #

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