CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Donaldson's path

(61 posts)

  1. neddie
    Member

    Cycle campaigners have been left nonplussed by new proposals for a prominent city centre development which has left a vital path link out.

    A new blueprint for the former Donaldson's College shows a new road layout, new parking plans, but no path for pedestrians and cyclists through the development.

    The path is regarded as a key 'missing link' in the cities cycle network, as it would help to provide a safe, low traffic route connecting the wider north Edinburgh cycle network with a planned route into the heart of the city.

    http://edinburgh.stv.tv/articles/309083-spokes-cycle-campaigners-call-on-donaldsons-developers-to-include-path/

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    "

    In response to the comments from SPOKES, a spokeswoman for CALA Homes and City & Country said: “As part of our consultation we are keen to hear feedback from local people as well as groups like Spokes and Sustrans and we know there is great deal of interest in the possibility of a cycle path crossing the site.

    “We are still assessing the site and the technical challenges which would be involved in incorporating a cycle route and will reflect the outcome in our proposals which we will present at our next public consultation event on March 19.”

    "

    Let's hope they listen - and act.

    Failing that, CEC SHOULD make it an absolute condition of planning permission.

    This highly desirable path has been talked about and 'promised' for YEARS.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. neddie
    Member

    “We are still assessing the site and the technical challenges which would be involved in incorporating a cycle route..."

    <sarcasm>

    Yeah, because it's technically really hard to build a cycle path isn't it? But roads through a development & underground parking, that's no problem at all.

    </sarcasm>

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Aye, the technical challenge of trying to flog high-end apartments in a gated community when there's riff-raff passing through the site in some wheeled convenience other than a Jaguar.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    I think what they really mean is 'can we persuade/make CEC build the path on the steep slope at the back' - (on CEC land).

    OR

    'Well we'll make more money if we build on more of OUR land'.

    AND

    'Anyway the people that buy OUR houses won't want plebs going past THEIR houses'.

    This is why there is a planning process and CEC is charged with balancing public and private interests (or something).

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. wingpig
    Member

    Maybe the technical challenge involves a scum-tunnel underneath the raised grassy bit, which is surprisingly not getting a ha-ha at the southern edge, according to the plans.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. gembo
    Member

    There was a brand new swimming pool in the brand new school behind the old doges palace building on that site. Astonishing that they moved to linlithgow just a few years after building the new school but hey they were offerd money for the land.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/plan-to-cram-more-flats-into-donaldson-s-1-3725808

    "Plan to cram more flats into Donaldson’s"

    "as developers confirmed they plan to squeeze nearly double the number of housing units into the historic building compared with previous proposals."

    But no room for cycling?

    In total, 201 flats will be created, with 115 in the historic building compared with previous proposals for just 63. Some will be as small as 23sq metres.

    Having lived in a 40sq metre flat for a number of years, I don't envy anyone trying just over half that.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. Stickman
    Member

    23sq m? Might get away with that in Mayfair, but Edinburgh? Or will they be marketed as "executive crash pads"?

    I haven't looked at the plans yet. How are they proposing residents will get their Chelsea Tractors in? Directly from Wester Coates?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    Ah. Underground parking. The technical challenges must indeed involve tunnels/bridges, as there presumably MUST be an unimpedable access road from the front gates right to the underground parking spaces, which the cycle path would have to go over or under. Maybe another technical difficulty is knocking holes in walls for east-west access, or removing parking spaces for new entrances.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. Min
    Member

    Or will they be marketed as "executive crash pads"?

    Like those things in Toyko where they sleep in a tube? I am struggling to imagine 23sqm but it sounds really small.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. Stickman
    Member

    Yeah, I find it easier to think about it in relation to my own flat. About 250 square feet, so around 12ft x 20ft.

    Their parking space will be more than a quarter of the area of the flat.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. Min
    Member

    Jings! Only minimalists need apply.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I am struggling to imagine 23sqm but it sounds really small.

    It's slightly less than the footprint of your typical Lothian Bus.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. cc
    Member

    Hey, if it was good enough for Cliff Richard and pals...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. Stickman
    Member

    ...didn't end so well for the Young Ones though.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. Stickman
    Member

    their parking space will be more than a quarter of the area of the flat.

    I underestimated; it's actually half of the area of the flat if you go by planning guidelines.

    parking guidelines

    Recommended dimensions 2.4m x 4.8m = 11.5sq m

    They'll need their big cars to sleep in.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. wingpig
    Member

    The 23m² flats will probably be the affordable housing all developments have to pretend to contain, whose owners won't get a car parking space.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. Stickman
    Member

    Servant's quarters?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

  21. wingpig
    Member

    Posted 9 years ago #
  22. Greenroofer
    Member

    ...as a random aside, am I alone in finding the EEN site almost unusable now? It's so full of advertising videos and those 'one weird tip' links that it's become too much trouble. The only reason I go there now is to read the anti-cyclist bile in the Comments section and wonder at the strange and empty lives of the people who write it.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "am I alone in finding the EEN site almost unusable now?"

    No

    I mostly see the m. version - no vids.

    Make sure sound is off if you use desktop version!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  24. Snowy
    Member

    Wingpig, lol...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  25. chrisfl
    Member

    @Greenroofer, you're not alone. Although I've recently started using uBlock Origin to block add. Blocks 20 requests from that article.

    Actual planning permission for this is at https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NT881TEWMP600

    and

    https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NT883OEWMP800

    Posted 9 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    I can never work out how to link to individual docs on the portal - URL seems to include a 'session code'.

    Seems to be NO PLAN FOR ANY CYCLE ROUTE.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  27. Chug
    Member

    There is a "potential cycle/ped access point" on the west side in one of the diagrams - but nothing on the east side, so no through route.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  28. wingpig
    Member

    East side abuts the gardens which are owned by the houses of Magdala Crescent, so there'll be no easy way of getting a path through them.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Is the design and access statement in 25 separate files to make it deliberately difficult to scrutinise it?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    "so no through route"

    "

    Donaldson's College, Residential Development - Transport Assessment

    Assessment of the development site against policy context
    Development of the site complies well with the criteria set out within SPP as it is proposed to be located near existing public transport facilities and takes account of the capacity of existing infrastructure. The development provides opportunities for direct links to be provided for pedestrians and cyclists from the site to existing infrastructure and public transport provision.
    The assessment demonstrates that the site conforms to the key land use and transport planning objectives. Paragraph 287 of SPP identifies the criteria against which planning applications should be assessed; the site can comply with these criteria as demonstrated below:
     Direct links to walking and cycling networks in the surrounding area are a key element of the development proposals and will be provided via links onto West Coates;
     The TA considers the effect on the capacity of the local road network as a result of the traffic generated by the development; and
     A Residential Travel Plan will be developed for the site, which encourages sustainable travel practice.
    The TA was prepared in accordance with Transport Scotland’s document ‘Transport Assessment Guidance’. In particular, the guidance on walking and cycling journey times was followed during the preparation of this TA.
    The site will be designed to reflect the principles set out within ‘Designing Streets’ with priority given to the access needs of pedestrians and cyclists where appropriate, with good links to adjacent footways on West Coates and to nearby bus stops leading to the wider Edinburgh area and to Haymarket Rail Station for services to Glasgow, Stirling etc.

    The development proposals will take cognisance of the need to ac
    hieve the correct balance between place and movement functions.
    The site complies with the SESplan Strategic Development Plan and CEC Local Development Plan as it supports sustainable access by being located within a short walking distance to existing public transport facilities and also by promoting sustainable travel options to the site through its Residential Travel Plan.

    "

    So that's about people who live on site not anyone else.

    Small print at top of plan says "PROPERTY OF EDINBURGH CITY COUNCIL"

    That's the bit outside the site and happens to be a steep bank.

    Presumably (ha ha ha) developers have agree to pay for the (previously proposed 'plan B') expensive path on this slope(?)

    Posted 9 years ago #

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