SRD - brilliant! Comprehensive and easily understood. The contrast with the anti-20mph piece is stark.
Also - good work whoever is responding to the frutier comments. Nice to see the anti-20mph folk reduced to incoherent rage.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
20's Plenty for Edinburgh
(194 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Uncle Monty
I hate drivers who speed in built-up areas but driving at 20mph is more difficult than you would think - you spend too much time looking at your speedo and not enough watching the road.
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Posted 9 years ago # -
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Any reference to the 57% increase in deaths and serious injuries in Portsmouth when they rolled out a similar scheme, hasn't really educated me about why this happened.
...
Also, as a pedestrian, I've found it more difficult to cross when cars are going at 'in-between' speeds, and could see more people chancing their luck, which doesn't seem safer.
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Just 'cos I'm selecting bits doesn't mean the whole would make any more sense!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Stickers now available. Who wants some?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Yes please!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Will have some at the farmers market tomorrow morning. Also probably this month's PY. Can arrange other rendezvous, especially if you can take a bunch and share them out with others in your part of town.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@SRD do you have any printed the right way up?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Chdot. That 57% was not related to the 20mph roads. But was for all Portsmouth roads in 2013 in comparison to the previous year. The Portsmouth 20mph roads were put in in 2008. No causation shown between the two events.
Rod
Posted 9 years ago # -
Thanks.
Why doesn't that surprise me?!
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Will have some at the farmers market tomorrow morning."
Do you have a stall?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Nope. Just thought we'd stand at one end or the other. Seemed a good opportunity for various reasons. Also the heart motif might appeal to people today!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Must resist the temptation to put a sticker on every pedestrian crossing in the city centre
Posted 9 years ago # -
Rod, wasn't it 2011 rather than 2013? Still, hard to see why changing some 30s to 20s years before could have caused an increase in KSIs in remaining 30s years later. And similar rise in KSIs took place in Southampton (part of same police area) which didn't go for 20s. Ian Campbell comments on this.
I'd suspect the quality of the Police data: our own L and B managed to get changes in severities of this size, probably due to data processing changes, in 1990s. And Police Scotland can't even get it right when they are saying their data is unreliable.Posted 9 years ago # -
The stickers look great. Is there any word on a counter protest (or an agreement if you will) for the 21st?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Don't want to give them any more publicity on the 21st. (No one liked my idea of buying a batch lot of Jeremy Clarkson masks....)
Preliminary planning now for a small supportive demo on 17 March outside council office as committee members go in to meeting. More soon.
Best thing to do now is write your councillors and remind them how much you support it. And encourage others to do so as well.
If you'd like some stickers let me know. Would be particularly good to hear from people who can distribute some either to their friends or to people who've gotten in touch to ask for some.
Two planned distributions so far - next PY and Saturday 21st at the CTC Scotland campaigning meeting.
Posted 9 years ago # -
motor biker in the lift into work today started conversation without preamble about going at 20mph
I was in cycle commute uniform. And we said hello first so no actual need for extraneous detail.
He said Easter road empty and in the future would be odd to go at 20mph. I said it would add seconds to his journey. He said it would just feel funny going up a quiet road that slowly and he would have to get used to it.
It was all agreeable chit chat
Posted 9 years ago # -
My EEN opinion piece still 'most discussed'!
meanwhile, Stuart Hay of Living Streets in the Scotsman
http://www.scotsman.com/news/slowing-traffic-gives-us-a-bit-more-breathing-space-1-3694827Posted 9 years ago # -
Friend of mine posted this on the anti-20mph FB page a while back. thought it was worth a share:
I am struck by how this discussion quickly becomes a moral one - both sides trying to suggest they are 'better' people for what ever strongly- held, ludicrous or not, opinion they do or do not hold. Personally i know the 20/mph limit is going annoy me intensely, as it did in oxford when i lived there. Probably there will be times when i break it, as i did there. But the one thing i learnt from a speed awareness course i attended (yes instead getting points for speeding!) is that statistically if you hit someone at above 30 miles an hour, even just little bit, you are much much more likely to kill them. And if you hit someone at between 20 and 30 you are much much more likely to really really seriously injure them, than if you stuck to 20. The numbers, in other words suggest that at both 20 miles an hour, and at 30 miles an hour, something happens to do with the risk of serious injury/death. Now i dont care whose fault it is if a kid, or a mum, or anyone else steps out onto the road an is hit by a car, and is killed or seriously injured. Was he/she on the phone, was the driver on the phone, was he driving too fast?? This is kind of irrelevant, after the fact. What i do know is that I dont want it on my conscience that I was part of putting someone in a wheel chair because i was in hurry. No thank you.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I tried to access the 20s Plenty website at work. The internet filter blocked it: we're not allowed to look at "Political/Social Advocacy" sites!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Stickman
I will take that as a compliment.
And yes political and social advocacy. Very accurate.
Regards
Rod King - 20's Plenty for Us
Posted 9 years ago # -
http://www.scotsman.com/news/alastair-dalton-opponents-of-20mph-limits-living-in-the-past-1-3696140
"It’s maybe time for a national debate on how we want roads in our towns and cities to look"
Posted 9 years ago # -
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It seems as if certain motorists feel that, once they are behind the wheel of their vehicle, they have an inalienable right to get from A to B as fast as possible and without impediment; that to sit in the car without it moving is completely unacceptable.
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Pretty much!
Posted 9 years ago # -
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/system/files/documents/guides/20 mph Good Practice Guide - 19 December 2014 - Version to be published.pdf
Posted 9 years ago # -
Here was our response to the new guidance :-
Previous Scottish guidance to local traffic authorities on implementing 20mph limits dated from 2001 and so failed to take into account either developing 21st century calls for lower speeds on community roads or the significant implementations and success of wide-area 20mph limits throughout England. Whilst wide-area 20mph limits were implemented for the south side of Edinburgh very successfully, these all needed special Transport Scotland approval.
This new guidance replaces all previous guidance on 20mph limits. It now recognizes and references the active travel, public health, air quality and road safety benefits from wide-area 20mph limits.
Some key statements in the guidance are :-
• The Scottish Government is committed to creating a healthier, greener and safer Scotland and believes that the introduction of 20 miles per hour (mph) restrictions can help to contribute to all these objectives. By reducing speed on our roads we can create streets where the space is shared more equally between different road users and create a safer environment, encouraging people to make active travel choices.
• The Scottish Government is committed to encourage initiatives that cut speed, particularly near schools, in residential areas and in other areas of our towns and cities where there is a significant volume of pedestrian or cyclist activity. The Scottish Government believe it is right that local authorities should have the power to set appropriate speed limits on local roads in order to meet local circumstances.
• The Scottish Government is also keen to see a transformation of our towns and cities to ensure people are prioritised over motor vehicles and increasingly choose to walk or cycle when they make short journeys.Besides providing guidance that is far more supportive of wide-area limits it specifically states that advisory limits should no longer be implemented and instead mandatory limits should be used.
Rod King MBE, Founder and Campaign Director for 20’s Plenty for Us commented :-
“We have long been lobbying for Transport Scotland to update its guidance on 20mph limits . This new guidance addresses that and gives local Scottish Traffic Authorities the ability to deploy wide-area 20mph limits more widely, more cost effectively and more successfully. We welcome this important update and encourage Scottish local authorities to progress with wide-area 20mph limits for their communities.”
Download the Press Release at http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/PRel/Scotland20mphGuidance.pdf
Rod
Posted 9 years ago # -
I am looking forward to visiting Edinburgh tomorrow for the Space for Cycling training day.
I will be outlining a new initiative that we are launching for 20mph advocacy in Scotland.
Rod
Posted 9 years ago # -
Rod - weather set to be nice - I will be out with the fietsclub of Balerno on a wee spin as wind might be light
Watch out for the hopefully one man demo
Posted 9 years ago # -
@gembo I'm up for a critical mass ride around Cowgate/High St tomorrow morning. 10am anyone?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Unfortunately the alleged webcam on top of the Scotsman building (presumably the current one, but it's impossible to tell) isn't working, along with anything else on CamVista, so attendance will be impossible to determine remotely.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Twitter's reporting 30-40 plus some taxis.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Okay - I was in town early today (for trouser tax purposes) and thought I would take a detour on the way back home to have a look at the anti-20mph demo. I cycled past at just before 10 and there were about 20 people there - and I'm being generous. The protesters were outnumbered by police officers and they all could have hitched a lift in the back of the Chaplins disco van/truck thing.
There was one bike there with anti-20mph banners attached to it.
I may have laughed out loud as I went past.
Posted 9 years ago #
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