CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
The 2842 figure is for pedestrian and cyclist reported road casualties in all of Scotland, which is 22% of the Scottish total reported road casualties.
Did someone once say (something like) 'accuracy is over-rated - if I'm right 90% of the time, the other 5% doesn't matter'?
slowcoach - nicely done! It would never have occurred to me to look for that.
Have been meaning to blog about 20mph and finally gotten round to it...
Is there any way of identifying the taxi company involved in the anti-20 march? By reg plate or by taxi no.?
Just so as I can avoid using them. Ever.
Quite interesting to read that the average speed reduction in the pilot scheme was only 1.9mph. Does anybody really think that is going to make a significant difference either way?
stiltskin - I think it will make a difference. A study carried out by the TRL (The effects of drivers' speed on the frequency of road accidents) found that, on urban streets, accident rates fell by between 4% and 6% for each 1 mph reduction in average speed.
Also, remember they left out most of the middle sized and big roads in the trial. Proposals now include roads with higher speeds, where we should see more sizable drops.
"where we should see more sizable drops"
Let's hope so...
And hope that the police are interested in enforcement.
It's entirely possible to slow down the top speed, but not affect average speeds. Drivers spend so much of their time flooring it to get to the next lights, then slamming their brakes on and waiting for the lights.
Agreed. Wil be interesting to record average speeds on the forthcoming SESTran Commuter Challenge in June - part of EdFoC.
This will be on a total journey though. So the wait for public transport plus walking from your car, bus, train, tram etc to the finish in St Andrew Square.
Or walking with your bike the last few yards....
@stiltskin - Does anybody really think that is going to make a significant difference either way?
Possibly - let me check some evidence to see if I can be convinced...
This will be a long one!
(Courtesy of University of Adelaide Centre for Automative Safety Research)
Here the speed limit was 60 km/h (our 40 mph).
Excuse the statistics, but that's what we're speaking of when considering that the "average" speed has gone down.
Let's make a few major assumption - let's assume that UK drivers are like Australian drivers (likely) and that the same shape distribution will happen at 30mph limits and 20mph limits in the UK (possibly a bit more shaky ground here!).
The distribution above isn't a "normal distribution", so isn't symmetrical, there are more people drive under the speed limit than over.
The most popular speed (the "mode") is 61 km/h, and (going to the linked page) the average is 59.9 km/h, however 58% of people drive slower than this. 97% of people drive slower than 5 km/h over the average/speed limit.
So 60% of people will be going slower, and most will be clustering around the limit (based on the assumptions I've made above).
That seems pretty convincing, although I'd much prefer to see the distribution at other limits to see if they are similar.
Further down the paper, some scenarios are indeed presented.
A 5km/h speed reduction (similar to the observed average reduction) had a predicted 15% reduction in crashes, and 13% fewer people injured. I note that the TRL figures (from Morningsider) are similar, at 12-18% (scaled to 3 mph reduction), which lends weight to the UK driver=Australian driver argument.
Total compliance with the 60km/h limit was predicted to reduce crashes by 28.6%, and 30% fewer casualties, which would be much better, but that's not the world in which we live! (Hmm, possible evidence for GPS speed limiters?)
A 50km/h limit (our 30mph) with real world compliance would see crashes down by nearly a third, although the percentage injured would be down by only 27% as the speeders disproportionately cause injuries (crash energy varying by the square of impact speed).
So, with only 2 mph reduction in average speeds, I'm quite happy.
Robert
The Say No FB page has gone uber-quiet, last post over a week ago saying that they need to keep up the pressure and it would appear lots of people didn't know about the march etc etc. Two lovely comments:
"20mph would just be utterly stupid, traffic would be going so slow less cars getting through lights etc. would just make traffic dire. Just need folk to stop being so stupid and walking out in front of cars"
That's right, all motoring issues are caused by pedestrians walking out.
"Have spoken to a few people who did not know about the march and would have turned up"
If a 'few' is 2,961 people then they're coming close to matching PoP.
I'm feeling a little bit sorry for them....
I think we are showing more interest in it than anyone else!
That reminds me, must write that letter to my councillors to ask them to continue their support for 20mph.....
"
What is it like driving at 20mph? Bob reports that it was initially hard to get used to being gentle on the accelerator but it soon became normal. He made some interesting observations. Cars in front that accelerated away were often caught at the next traffic lights or junction. Bob also noted that he spent more time driving and less time stopping and starting, which eased the stresses on both himself and the car.
"
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1lpnp5db8comvr/gobike%2020mph%20press%20release.pdf
"
Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
03/03/2015 11:47
#UKgov follows @scotgov example and rejects default #20mph ..
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article4370284.ece
"
Robert Goodwill is just using "localism" as a fig leaf.
It will come but not this year. See :-
for my interview with him 12 months ago.
"Maybe we are not quite there yet"
"In time what you say may be a sensible approach"
were some noted "maybe moments".
Keep pushing, the door isn't open, but it is unlocked!
Rod
I sent the following to my councillor today. I resisted the temptation to use green ink.
"As you'll know, on 13th January the Transport Committee approved the plans for a 20mph road network across the city. Many cities in the UK are following the succesful example set on the continent in reducing speed limits, and Edinburgh's plans are positive and should be commended. Similar schemes have been shown to reduce traffic casualties, particularly for pedestrians. Lower speeds encourage greater levels of walking and cycling, helping towards the Council's aim of increasing Active Travel. The measures will also improve the general liveability of the city and make it an even more pleasant place to live. The Council's own surveys and consultations have shown that these proposals enjoy broad support from residents.
I believe that the next stage of the process is the presentation of a detailed implementation plan at the March Transport Committee. I hope that there is still time to add streets to the 20mph network, as there are two streets in your constituency which would benefit from the lower speed limit.
1. St John's Road
The proposed 20mph network shows that St John's Road will have a 20mph limit from Drumbrae roundabout to Station Road. There is a strong case for extending this further east, to Pinkhill. This would cause a very small increase in car travel times (less than 20 seconds) but would make a significant improvement to the area. Most of this section of road is residential, one of the key criteria in choosing 20mph sections. The popular visitor attraction of the zoo is also in this section, which attracts families arriving by public transport. There are also a number of hotels and guest houses. Additionally, Corstorphine hospital for the elderly and those in community care is located here; residents and visitors would benefit from lower road speeds. This section of road also forms part of the John Muir Way so encourages walkers and cyclists to use it. Further, the Council has already assessed that a new controlled crossing should be installed at Kaimes Road, suggesting that there are safety concerns on this stretch of road.
2. Balgreen Road
Again, this road is almost entirely residential from St John's Road down to Baird Road. The road is limited to a single lane on both sides due to resident parking so higher speeds are not appropriate in any case. It forms a walking route to Balgreen Primary School, Balgreen library and Saughton Park. On the side streets there are several nurseries, a medical centre and sheltered housing. People using the popular walking and cycling routes of the Water of Leith and the local off-road paths need to cross Balgreen Road. Therefore Balgreen Road has a high number of users who would benefit from lower traffic speeds.
I would be grateful if you can present these suggestions to your colleagues on the Transport Committee, and to continue to express your support for the 20mph plans both publicly and with your fellow councillors.
Yours sincerely
Stickman"
Nice prompt reply from Jeremy Balfour. Looks like we can still lobby for additional streets to be added:
"Thank you for your email. I do not sit on the Transport Committee but have copied my colleague in asking her to amend the plan when it next comes to the Committee. I agree with both your suggestions and asked for them to be included in the original plan but the Officers and the Administration Councillors would not agree. I will continue to put pressure on them.
Please do get back in touch if I can with any other local issues now or in the future.
Kind regards
Jeremy"
Follow-up from Joanna Mowat. Five years to implement this!!! Could build a Forth bridge or a borders rail link or even a tramlines in that time.
"Cllr Balfour has passed your email to me as the Conservative Group's spokesman on Transport. It is clear exactly what will come forward at the meeting on 17th March but I gave noted your concerns about St John's Road and Balgreen Road and will make sure officials are aware of them. We have yet to see the implementation plan but my understanding is that introduction of the 20mph zones will be over a 5 year period and I expect there may be refinements over time. All the changes will require a Traffic Regulation Order which has a statutory consultation process so will allow public comment regarding the changes.
Regards
Joanna Mowat"
"Five years to implement this!!!"
Yep which also puts the fear and loathing into perspective.
I think primary reason is 'spread the cost over several years'.
"
PHASING in 20mph speed limits across the Capital is to begin in February next year as questions grow over how the new network will be enforced.
Fresh blueprints show districts in the city centre and rural west Edinburgh are first in line for the restrictions, which will then be rolled out to the north, south-central and east, north-west, west and south between February 2016 and September 2017.
Zones with the highest incidence of road collisions, pedestrian and cycling activity have been prioritised for inclusion in the network, transport leaders said.
"
"The Evening News understands police officers have a store of around 100 additional guns, reserved for community use, which are set to be deployed throughout the city."
Well I know "we" are keen to see stricter enforcement, but I didn't realise summary execution of speeding motorists was on the cards!
Where are these "fresh blueprints" shown? I can't find them on the Council website (finding things there is often difficult)
There's a nice Guardian piece, http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2015/mar/11/campaigners-hail-edinburghs-20mph-speed-limit-plan
Wow - how old is that photo at the top of The Guardian article. Atlantean buses, two-way car traffic on Princes Street.
@Morningsider , and no trams, more to the point, in an article about Edinburgh transport.
Who would have thought that the EEN and the Guardian would share the same commenters?
@Morningsider, At least 20 years old. the Standard life building on Lothian road appears to be absent. I'm not sure what the white office block behind it is either.
It's hard to see but I think the "new" building at the bottom of Castle street is there too which would make it not much more than 20 years old too.
Taxi man:
We also worry about the fact that this will be a 24-hour measure. A lot of our members work overnight when the roads are clear and there are no pedestrians about. In those circumstances it’s not dangerous to go over 20mph, and if we’ve got inebriated passengers they might not like the fact that we’re driving so slowly.
Why do people think it's OK to drive faster at night when visibility is poorer; there are more likely to be drunks and nocturnal animals on the road; the unexpected is just as likely to happen; there may be vehicles with poor lighting, etc etc. ?
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