CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Semple St lanes and hand signal

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  1. gembo
    Member

    Coming round from evans onto semple street there are four lanes. I sit in the red box in lane two position as lane one runs to the left turn on to Morrison street. Thus when I reach the junction via the bike lane between lane one and two. I think I am in the correct lane for turning right and then going straight over Lothain road. As again on the road up to Lothain road there is lane to the left for left turn down Lothain road. I would indicate left to get into that lane but I would not indicate right to stay in the lane I am in. Often you have to watch out for buses as their turning circle can take you out. Today a BMW wanted to go from my right hand side through me to my left hand side all whilst we were turning the corner.

    Am I right in not signalling ? Is there anything else I can do at this junction. I prefer to stay alive if it means I have to take a different line or make a hand signal?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. SRD
    Moderator

    I do what you do, but I also tend to signal on the corner. hard to signal 'straight on', although usually there is queuing traffic in both directions.

    agree its horrid - think i blogged about that.

    try doing it with kids too!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. Instography
    Member

    As soon as I got to the BMW bit I realised where the problem lay.

    But I remember, when I was learning to drive, a particular road that bent to the right but with a junction on the bend. Taking the junction would have been technically a left turn although in practice would have been straight ahead. My driving instructor told me to indicate right if there was a car waiting at the junction to join my road. He reckoned some drivers might assume I would go straight on rather than follow the road round to the right. So, even though I wasn't technically turning, just following the bend, it was better to indicate to avoid any doubt.

    I guess same would apply and I might do what SRD does and indicate just to confirm my intentions to any numpties in BMWs that might assume something else.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @gembo

    That turn formed part of my regular commute for a couple of years. It is a dispiriting stretch of tarmac.

    I don't give a hand signal there for the same reason I only very rarely give them anywhere. At least two fifths of drivists aren't aware of our presence at all. Many of the remainder won't see a hand signal. Many of the few that see a hand signal won't alter their behaviour at all, particularly the dangerous ones. Some people assume that any hand signal by a bicyclist means 'I am slowing down to do something and you may overtake'. Meanwhile our control of our bikes has been reduced by riding one-handed. I generally judge that a signal will be counter-productive.

    So I let my road position and body language do the talking.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. wingpig
    Member

    If looking around and glaring isn't sufficient I'll ostentatiously signal once I'm past the most-rutted bit. Problem vehicles split evenly between those whose drivers don't know the road layout, those whose drivers are impatient twerps and those whose drivers' planned routes are blocked by parked lorries.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. dougal
    Member

    I don't think I've ever made it round that corner without immediately halting at a red. I'm happy to take the wide left turn then filter to the correct place most times.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. Nelly
    Member

    Gembo, everything you did is correct. And putting my car driving head on, wouldn't change it either. If the beemer driver was in the "wrong lane" (happens a lot there) and he noticed this at the last minute, that explains his actions.

    As to what I would do? Ensure you are ahead of the traffic and just be aware of numpties. No different if you are driving.......but very different outcome even in a low speed collision.

    IMO, cyclists should be allowed to proceed on green man phase in junctions like that, hence taking us out of the danger zone.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. gembo
    Member

    Thanks, just had three in a row where the drivers were trying to tell me I was in the wrong for following correct lane and signals etc though as said I am happier to be wrong but upright than right and on the deck.

    The Peds are not a big problem but they will try to cross on red. The cars coming up Morrison St will try to jump the lights. Once a lorry went straight ahead which was a new one on me, but possible, think you end up at back of film house. The beer lorries can be an issue. The cyclists mostly fine until the Lothain road crossing where you get left turners ploughing through Peds from straight ahead lane and the other day I watched a cyclist achieve the right turn from the straight ahead lane in a way that the lorry that caused the original Bentley bother in a differnt thread, couldn't.

    No one perfect and I am now not ever going to shake my head clarice bean as Bentley tramp did not like that either.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. cb
    Member

    "I don't give a hand signal there for the same reason I only very rarely give them anywhere"

    Please do give them. I for one appreciate them.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    I can't remember ever hand signalling there. Your lane position sounds spot on, and what I do.

    Even if I thought a hand signal appropriate, the road surface on that whole stretch, is really poor and I would rather have both hands on my handlebar.

    I don't recall ever feeling in danger at that stretch either though. Maybe its the times I'm on it. Its usually chockers with cars not moving very quickly!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. Morningsider
    Member

    This was part of my commute for about five years. I always tried to take primary from as far back on Fountanbridge as I could (usually around where Evans is now). I would stay in lane, as traffic generally not too fast here, and try and hold my place all the way round to Bread Street.

    I don't remember ever signalling here. Terrible bit of road. Many drivers have no idea which lane to take and I have seen some insane lane switching over the years. It's a hugely wide street, with stupidly wide pavements for the amount of foot traffic. I'm sure some smart designer could come up with a decent segregated cycle route round here.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    Even a not so smart designer could fit a decent segregated cycle route there.

    The biggest problem, as ever, is CEC has no desire to do so. Here, nor anywhere else.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. mgj
    Member

    Surely that would need three segregated routes, unless the suggestion is that cyclists turning right (or going straight on) would be corralled out of the fast drivers way until the last minute.

    There is no signal for going straight on, but the response to a honk from a driver behind when you are in the correct lane does involve a straight middle finger.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. Morningsider
    Member

    mgj - I would remove the need for cyclists to go down Semple Street by having a segregated contraflow cycle lane up the last bit of Fountainbridge and then along East Fountainbridge. Chuck in a set of traffic lights with an exclusive bike phase to allow people to get across/on to Lothian Road safely and jobs a good-un. (I may not have thought this through correctly - it's just off the top of my head)

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. SRD
    Moderator

    exactly:http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/making-sense-of-cyclists-shocking.html

    Posted 9 years ago #

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