CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Forrest Road Misconception

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  1. AKen
    Member

    I've been cycling this way in the morning for months now and I think that there's only been one morning when the cycle lane is not blocked by vehicles.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  2. cc
    Member

    Frankly I wouldn't use that cycle lane even if I could, after once having been caught between the pavement and a bus as it moved towards the bus stop. Alarming. I've since altered my route to avoid Forrest Road altogether.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  3. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I'm not sure I've ever used the Forrest Road cycle lane, on the basis that the stretch of road is sufficiently short that:
    a) I'm hardly going to lose much time for my journey by sitting in line with motorists;
    b) and neither are other motorists;
    c) I'm usually turning right at Chambers St anyway;
    d) The narrowing at Greyfriars Bobby brought about by Chambers St traffic means it's better for drivers to be in front and behind me rather than alongside me, when I'm going straight on to George IV Br.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  4. Deleriad
    Member

    Had a response back from the Brian Sharkie of the council via Marco Biagi. In summary,

    There would be a number of challenges to implementing Spokes’ proposal or a similar project, including the satisfactory operation of the new junction arrangement at Bristo Place / Teviot Place, providing suitable vehicle access for businesses and residents and, perhaps most significantly, creating an onward connection to a similar standard to connect to Princes Street and George Street. Considering and taking forward these proposals would be a significant undertaking. With this in mind we envisage an approach similar to that currently underway in relation to improving east-west cycle links through the city centre. Subject to securing external funding, we will look to take this work forward during the 2016/17 financial year."

    People here are better than me at decoding what this means but I take it as meaning there's a door to open if there's the motivation to push hard enough.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    "I take it as meaning there's a door to open if there's the motivation to push hard enough"

    Sounds optimistic.

    Hope you're right!

    "

    Subject to securing external funding

    "

    THAT, of course is a major part of the problem-

    'If someone else pays we'll think about it'

    Whether it should come out of the "cycle budget " is one question, but it should just be part of CEC's OWN plans - not dependent on 'extra' money.

    What another council does -

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14923#post-190337

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "

    A well-functioning city has an efficient transport system. It is consequently of vital importance that the bicycle should con- tinue to be the transport mode of choice in the future: the greater the number of trips involving space-saving transport modes, the greater the overall passability of goods and people. For this reason the expansion of capacity in the city's most heavily trafficked sections will continue to be a focus area.

    "

    http://www.cycling-embassy.dk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Copenhagens-Biycle-Account-2014.pdf

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. SRD
    Moderator

    @deleriad in council terms that's actually very positive

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. DdF
    Member

    @deleriad It does sound very positive! My attempt at decoding is that they are considering a segregated cycle route, subject to an application to Sustrans for 50/50 match funding, with the other 50% coming from the council's cycle budget - that is normally what the council is meaning when it talks of 'external funding' - there is no other obvious source of external funding.

    Even more ambitious in that there is a reference to continuation towards Princes Street.

    Putting it in the 16/17 budget would be pretty speedy in Council terms, given that it has not been mentioned before, plus the fact that they will need to consult the public and shop owners, then may well need a traffic regulation order (legal process usually taking 9 months or so) and an application to Sustrans.

    Of course, it could well be "in the 16/17 budget" for the design and consultation costs, with construction more likely the following year. That is the procedure under which most of their segregated routes are being implemented.

    In the background is also the fact that the Transport Minister keeps talking about a very big 'demonstration project' and has mentioned Edinburgh as the likely candidate. Maybe the council knows something we don't and they are hopeful of a big dollop of cash in a year or two.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "Transport Minister keeps talking about a very big 'demonstration project' "

    I thought he was just hoping Leith Walk would 'work out'!

    That was Keith Brown's idea of a 'big demo project'.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. Nelly
    Member

    Hmmmm, Keith says "big demo project".

    Aye right, because George Street wasn't / couldn't be "big" enough as a statement?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. Luath
    Member

    Here's an example of why the current set up at Forrest Road is dangerous:

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Video

    The guy in the van had no idea that I was there. What made this incident worse was that I was looking to my right to ensure the drivers behind the van had seen me, so I wasn't watching for the van doing silly van manoeuvres across my path.
    I think at the very least the council needs to put up a sign warning drivers on Teviot Place of cycles joining the carriageway from the left.
    I also wonder if forcing everyone to 'stay in lane' for the first 10-20 metres of Forrest Road would help?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. Snowy
    Member

    I notice he then proceeded to do nice bit of pavement parking, so he's probably a SMIDGAF rather than a mere SMIDSY.

    I'd have gone back and ensured his tyres weren't overinflated after a stunt like that.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. Deleriad
    Member

    Interesting proposed design for Pratt Street in Camden just surfaced on twitter Essentially, the proposal is for a central loading strip (with cycle parking), dual cycle lanes, widened pavements and a single traffic lane for service/access traffic.

    That pattern ought to work for Forrest Road, especially if the bus stop is removed. (Apologies for image: follow the link to get a better view.)

    Forrest Road is 100% business with residential above so a central loading strip will make it easier to load; current situation is bad for everyone. As ever it would need good enforcement so no one uses it as free parking.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. neddie
    Member

    More ideas for Forrest Rd posted here:

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15842&replies=45

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. LaidBack
    Member

    As noted by Kaputnik on other thread I think we can't just ignore bus routes. The 2 for example is one of the few buses not to use Princes St and is used by Grassmarket and Lawnmarket residents as our own street only gets themed tour buses now. (Although we had the 23 and 27 diverted recently).

    I agree with SRD about Candlemaker row junction being dangerous - upward bit of that is bus lane in effect. Close that and 2 would have to go elsewhere - Victoria St could host the 2 - if it was not a car park!

    It all comes down to how the demographics of city will develop. Ageing/ unfit population means there is a need for low access buses. Tourists use service buses too. Electric bikes may get more older people to ditch their car - if they own one. Self Drive hire cars could be an interesting and possibly disruptive x-factor.
    We need less private vehicles and with other options there'll be less need for them.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. ih
    Member

    ".... I think we can't just ignore bus routes."

    Agree wholeheartedly, but that doesn't mean that the current bus network is perfect, or even approaching perfection. Also agree that the most serious problem is the number of private vehicles, and in that class I include the proliferation of commercial vans and lorries. I don't think we should be scared of significant improvements to our environment because of perceived problems for the elderly and disabled. For example there could be a fleet of smaller purpose built buses that plied routes within the city centre (old and new) areas in a much more flexible and useful way than the existing routes. They could be given special status to go places that were otherwise pedestrian and bike areas.

    Deliveries also seem to be an intractable problem. There are loads of ideas on this forum about how deliveries could be organised.

    I would like to see an Edinburgh where the central area, and my starting point would be an area bounded by Princes Street, Lothian Road, The Bridges and Laurieston Place (or even Melville Drive), is essentially motor traffic free, with small public transport vehicles making guest appearances to provide a flexible service.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. wingpig
    Member

    "Close that and 2 would have to go elsewhere..."

    I wonder if a bus could get up Guthrie Street? Presumably not if there was anything parked anywhere along it but if it was made one-way uphill-only (except cyclists) then a carefully-driven bus might be able to get up it, and an infrequent #2 wouldn't make the west end of the Cowgate much worse than it is already. Can buses fit underneath George IV Bridge?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. kaputnik
    Moderator

    and an infrequent #2 wouldn't make the west end of the Cowgate much worse than it is already

    the west end of the Cowgate is often the worse for infrequent #2s...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. Fountainbridge
    Member

    I wonder if a bus could get up Guthrie Street?

    I'd very much doubt it

    Anything to stop the 2 going through Cowgate and up Pleasance? Cowgate has been used as a diversion route for double deckers in the past. Apart from the narrow pavement only other thing might need improving would be St Mary Street junction.

    The 2 is often diverted up Victoria street on Sundays due to badly parked cars on Candlemaker row

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. gembo
    Member

    candlemaker row and a double decker bus always a surprise - I would say possibly the strangest placeto find a lothian bus in Edinburgh

    cowgate low bridges?? They are obviously quite high bridges but /-\

    guthrie street don't think so

    semple street bus stops have multiplied with an east lothain stop very close to the corner and the Std Life underground. I predict a riot

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. urchaidh
    Member

    "I wonder if a bus could get up Guthrie Street?"

    How about a tram instead? I just spent a few days in Lisbon where they successfully crossbred trams and roller coasters. I can't think of a street in Edinburgh that would be too steep, narrow or twisted for the Portuguese to run a tram up. I suspect they'd get one up the steps on Guthrie street.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. LaidBack
    Member

    I predict smaller driverless buses.
    Apparently they're going to try one in Aberdeen.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. wingpig
    Member

    They have small buses in Malaga but they still have loads of scrapes on the back wings.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. DaveC
    Member

    I can't think of a street in Edinburgh that would be too steep, narrow or twisted for the Portuguese to run a tram up. I suspect they'd get one up the steps on Guthrie street.

    But in winter no ice/snow? Do they get much snow in Lisbon?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. Frenchy
    Member

    But in winter no ice/snow? Do they get much snow in Lisbon?

    They're funicular, so traction doesn't matter.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. cb
    Member

    The 23 manages Craighouse Drive with no run up at the bottom.

    Drumbrae also has a bus stop at the point where it starts getting really steep, south bound, so they can cope with that too.

    Kirk Brae another steep one.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. urchaidh
    Member

    "They're funicular, so traction doesn't matter."

    They have a mix. They do have some funicular lines and some modern articulated trams, but the '28' route through the narrow, steep streets around Alfama runs these small wooden trams from the '30s as nothing else will fit.

    They are traditional steel wheels on rails so, as DaveC pointed out, might not cope so well with Edinburgh winters. But then, neither do the buses.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. wingpig
    Member

    Buses were slipping as they tried to get over the wee kicker at the north end of Waverley Bridge in the winter of 2010-11.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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