Edinburgh-Perth-Inverness-Thurso Train « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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Edinburgh-Perth-Inverness-Thurso Train

(22 posts)

Started 9 years ago by Roibeard
Latest reply from amir
This topic is resolved

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Scotrail train cycle storage

Roibeard
Member

Anyone have experience of the Edinburgh-Thurso rolling stock?

We're off to Orkney for a long weekend at the end of April, and need to decide on how many bikes we take...

* Outbound

Edinburgh-Perth no cycle reservations possible. Any idea what cycle space is available here? Is it the standard commuter arrangement (Carriages with bar officially taking two bikes?)

Perth-Inverness two cycle reservations possible. Are we likely to be able to squeeze more in without reservations?

Inverness-Thurso four cycle reservations possible

* Return

Thurso-Inverness four cycle reservations possible

Inverness-Edinburgh two cycle reservations possible

We'd like to get 5 bikes on board, but one can be a folder, and two are children's bicycles with small(er) frames.

I think for each train we'll be boarding at the start of the line, and disembarking at the terminus, so the odds are pretty much in our favour...

Unfortunately we don't have the option of simply getting the next train at any point, given the length of the journey, so that's not in our favour!

Robert

Posted 9 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

Three coach turbostar units commonly used Edin to Perth. These can have space beside toilet in centre coach for two bikes (or more unofficially) but often get luggage overspill of course.
Some turbostars have two extra bike spaces on an end coach. Two seats removed to increase space. Marked beside door. Unbookable as not on every unit.

Edin/Glas direct to Inverness can, on occassion muster a 2 car 158 plus turbostar.
Bit random I think. Abellio should do better but they'll have existing stock for a while.

Posted 9 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

Let us know how it goes. We have several lots of friends we'd like to visit in Orkney. Not to mention the archaeology.

Posted 9 years ago #
Kim
Member

You also need to be aware that Thorso station and the ferry port at Scrabster are about two miles apart, the road in between gets very busy when the ferries come in. As most people trying to get to the station using taxis and there generally aren't enough taxies, the drivers go back and forth like maniacs.

Posted 9 years ago #
paddyirish
Member

Couple of hints for taking bikes on trains that not everyone observes. You can generally get 3-4 bikes on a friendly rack if people observe them.
1) remove all paniers etc.
2) Pair them nose to tail
3) Bring a spare bungee cord- just in case you have the 4th bike. it will be invaluable to secure your bike to the rack.
4) be patient and smile at the guards. Most are reasonably relaxed about a 3rd or even a 4th bike provided you make every effort to minimise the inconvenience to them and other passengers.

On top of this get to the train/platform early at Waverley- don't risk trying to get on at Haymarket. If you get on first the places are yours...

*For those horrible walled "bike compartments" all bets are off - take a folder...

Posted 9 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

The far north lines (everything north of Inverness) use Class 158s almost exclusively and in a single unit (2 cars) consit. In my experience they have had a proper horizontal rack for 2 bikes, of the sort you also get on the Turbostars. There's also space with a bit of cunning and bungeeing to fit 3 bikes onto the rack and cause no obstruction.

Be warned, on routes to/from Inverness and far north, Scotrail are extremelly officious about bike capacity. Booking is pretty much essential. I've pretty much begged, lied and cheated my bike onto the train previously on the only train of the day (a Sunday) to try and get home.

Heading south from Thurso, the train has already been to Wick, and may be busy with LEJOGlers. Again booking therefore essential.

Posted 9 years ago #
cc
Member

There's also an Aberdeen-Orkney ferry - although it gets to Kirkwall at 23:00, and the southbound ferry leaves there at 23:45. It's perhaps doable if you're staying in Kirkwall.

Posted 9 years ago #
LaidBack
Member

Good point Cc.
We used that ferry on our cycling visit to Orkney. Meant we only had to worry about one train connection on a frequent (if expensive) route. Does arrive late though so you need to have digs close by. Orkney is worth the effort though....

Posted 9 years ago #
Rosie
Member

I had a traumatic wait in Wick on my return leg from Orkney, having been told by the rail staff that the train was fully booked for bikes. They didn't show up, fortunately. My experience is that guards are okay but the counter staff/phone staff can only do what the computer is telling you. Of course there's only one of me.

Orkney though totally brilliant, except for the wind. Beautiful, magical, eerie place & full of the cries of birds.

Posted 9 years ago #
unhurt
Member

Ex-Orkney resident chipping in late to agree with this:

"Be warned, on routes to/from Inverness and far north, Scotrail are extremelly officious about bike capacity. Booking is pretty much essential. I've pretty much begged, lied and cheated my bike onto the train previously on the only train of the day (a Sunday) to try and get home."

I also spent a long and boring day at Aviemore station last spring trying to squeeze two unbooked bikes on a train south...

When you get up there, depending on your train times you can also head east from Thurso to get the Pentland Ferries boat from Gills Bay to St Margaret's Hope.

Posted 9 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

I'm hoping that having reservations from Inverness-Thurso-Inverness for four bikes will stand me in good stead.

The Edinburgh-Perth-Inverness and Inverness-Edinburgh stretches are the bits I'm worried about, and hopefully Abellio will be better as of 1st April!

I'm currently leaning towards taking my chances, coupled with the sheer volume of children/kit/bicycles being too much hassle to remove once ensconced.

A backup plan of a roll of tape and some decorators' sheets to make "luggage" of the children's bikes might be an idea too, but I'll roll them on to the train (as the easiest way to move all the panniers) in the first instance, before stripping them.

Thankfully, tourism isn't a big contributor to the Scottish economy, only representing 5% of the GDP and 8.5% of the employment, otherwise such a palaver might be counterproductive...

Robert

Posted 9 years ago #
unhurt
Member

"Thankfully, tourism isn't a big contributor to the Scottish economy, only representing 5% of the GDP and 8.5% of the employment, otherwise such a palaver might be counterproductive..."

Indeed!

Good luck - Orkney is the business, it'll definitely repay all the planning/bike disguising when you get there.

Posted 9 years ago #
I were right about that saddle
Member

@Roibeard

At least you don't have a trailer. Scotrail count them as hangliders or tubas in some sort of Jobsworth/Rene Magritte mash-up.

Posted 9 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Robert, ditch the wrapping paper in favour of some material and a sewing machine. Make a bag which will hold your smaller bike and its removed wheels and stow in the madeup bag with a large zip. Then it looks like a suitcase size and when not in use can be rolled up and bungied to the bike rack. I have one you can borrow and also a sewing machine if you want.

Posted 9 years ago #
DaveC
Member

Have you costed up a family hire car for the weekend and add fuel at £10/100miles? Compare the cost to train tickets both ways. You can leave the hire car in the ferry port and go on as foot passengers. I and others have roofracks and bike you can borrow

Posted 9 years ago #
DaveC
Member

After a quick search.

Train between £147 & £243

Enterprise car rental. £145-168 (Mondeo-Insignia. We asked for and got an estate last time we hired.

Yes fuel is extra but it is peace of mind that you'll get 5! Bikes on the roof (with the right roof rack)

Posted 9 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

@DaveC - I was comparing train versus fuel for our own car (£100+), and the train (£60) trumped the car substantially, but I did book in advance with a family railcard.

Of course, we'd only get 55 miles for a tenner on a long run...

The train adventure is always a novelty for the kids too.

Thanks for the offer of the bag though - my definite plan is not to bother removing wheels, etc, but am aware that I need to be prepared for it, so a roll of tape and some plastic will be adequate preparation this time.

Robert

Posted 9 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

Time for the debrief...

Brompton folded at all points, even when not strictly required.

Edinburgh-Perth was the worst bit. There were only two official bicycle spaces, which were at least exclusively for bikes. I put three bikes in there, removed a wheel from the smallest child's bike and popped it in the luggage space. Staff not impressed, although very helpful at the Perth terminus in unloading and getting on the Perth-Inverness train.

(Glasgow)-Perth-Inverness had two bookable spaces, but actually had six bicycle spaces, four doubling as wheelchair spaces, just like the Edinburgh-Glasgow shuttle. For this one we just put two in each of the spaces, leaving the "table" space free (I've never actually seen those in use by bicycles).

Inverness-Thurso had four dedicated bicycle spaces, but again of the U-shaped hoop extending from wall-type, so can easily take three each.

Inverness-Edinburgh was just as for the Glasgow-Perth-Inverness section, except there were actually extra cyclists on the train. Between us we put the six bikes on the two hoop areas, leaving the table area free. Ticket inspector again not impressed, but only went so far as grumbling.

I can now guess at the logic of only permitting two bookable spaces on these routes, leaving the bicycle/wheelchair spaces as first come first served - I wonder who would get priority? The maximum two bikes per hoop isn't required, as long as the middle bicycle is facing the opposite direction to the outer two.

For the record, we've got roof and towball mounted cycle racks which could be borrowed by forumites if they don't fancy the hassle of public transport...

Oh, and don't try taking a family on the 0630 Stromness ferry to the 0830 Thurso train - by the time we'd got off the boat and picked up some hold luggage, it was a sprint finish and the train was only in the station for a couple of minutes!

Robert

Posted 9 years ago #
Tulyar
Member

Why didn't someone flag this to me.

There is another ferry from Gills Bay to St Margarets Hope - its commercial and there is a coach service connection which generally carries bikes like Citylink and Stagecoach Express Pack flat/compact and wrap in groundsheet/poly-sack as per CTC bike sack.

There is one diagram per day Edinburgh-Inverness which normally has Class 158's of the type modified for North of Scotland services. The 'Highland' units have the standard removal of the cupboard, plus space in the other carriage for 3 bikes (which can easily take 5). It usually means 3 Class 158 on the Edinburgh Inverness trip.

There are around 4 Class 158's that got dumped on Scotrail from Wales and Central Trains which arrived after the original fleet was entirely converted from the cupboard design.

There are 4 ex Hull Trains Class 170's which used to have power sockets as well as a closed up buffet counter, and just one bike space. There are also some SPT Class 170's which have no First Class seats and one bike space by the toilet.

On many electric trains the Scotrail safety case provides that, with no formal bike spaces, bikes can be placed in the door vestibules, this is sometimes used in a managed way for events, so that a 6-coach Class 170 train can fit in 32 bikes, and has done for PfS last year.

Posted 9 years ago #
amir
Member

I was wondering if anyone can advise on the latest state of bikes and trains in Scotland, in particular a journey from Wick to Edinburgh. I see on National Rail, the Wick to Inverness leg has a "minimum" 4 bike capacity, whereas trains further south it is 2. My party of 3 is therefore a little stressed! We can't get the early trains from Wick anyway (a well deserved breakfast!) so that adds pressure. There was talk of a large boost in capacity, but does that help here?

Also when are bike spaces released? At the same time as the tickets (ie 12 weeks)? Is it better to use the phone than the internet?

Many thanks. Going to the other end in Cornwall is just as stressy, but the sleeper gives a backup. Cross-fingers no strikes.

Posted 3 months ago #
LaidBack
Member

@amir - always a stress as exactly the same problem on family holidays years ago.

Looking at Inverness to Edinburgh many trains only allow two out of four spaces available on one booking.

However searching through the 18.50 train has six spaces and up to four bookable on one booking. That gets into Edinburgh at 10.15. Probably an IC7 unit (aka HST). Was on one recently and had four spaces on the level with two hanging elsewhere. Avoid LNER as their token bike spaces are very narrow.

This from ScotRail site for that train: https://www.buytickets.scotrail.co.uk/book/travel-options

There are currently 6 spaces available on this journey. Other trains may not require reservations, and folding cycles don't need one. You can book one cycle per passenger, up to 4 cycles per booking.

Monday 11th March
18:52 Departs at 18:52

22:15 Arrives at 22:15

Plat. 3 estimated

Standard fare,
cost:
£76.80
This is the cheapest available fare.
Limited availability

First class fare,
cost:
£195.60
Limited availability

3h 23m
,
0 changes

Posted 3 months ago #
amir
Member

Many thanks, Laidback :)

Posted 3 months ago #

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