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Do we need a GE2015 thread?

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  1. Firedog
    Member

    The only sensible response to all of this is electoral reform, but that will be like the Conservative, Labour and (on the current showing) SNP turkeys voting for Christmas. A big test of progressiveness

    Commitment to electoral reform is in the SNP's manifesto, to be fair.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. SRD
    Moderator

    I saw something on twitter suggesting that under PR UKIP would get 80 seats and greens about 40....

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. fimm
    Member

    "...under PR UKIP would get 80 seats..." which is enough to make me anti-PR for the first time in my life. Not terribly good to start disliking something because it suddenly doesn't give you the results you want, is it?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    @fimm exactly my reaction!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. Min
    Member

    Isn't that how Ed Milliband ended up as Labour leader as well?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    "...under PR UKIP would get 80 seats..."

    That's democracy...

    There will be enough 'voter blaming' from tomorrow (Jim has been implying it for a while!)

    I suspect a form of PR for Westminster would alter 'politics' sufficiently for UKIP (type parties) to be about more than 2 policies.

    Might also encourage others to exist - 'The Northern International Party' (in England)?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. fimm
    Member

    UKIP scare me. Seriously.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. PS
    Member

    That's democracy...

    This is the messy truth.

    There's a lot of rose-tinted viewing of various European political systems, government by consensus, proper coalitions, etc that goes on in the UK, but so little of it seems to recognise that most European electoral systems lead to some pretty chunky far right and far left political groupings in their parliaments. The outrage expressed at UKIP getting one MP by people who would otherwise idolise Borgen was amusing.

    One of the strong arguments for FPTP is that it prevents giving extremists the legitimacy of a parliamentary seat, but there you go.

    Either you have faith in The People to make sensible decisions or you don't. Take your pick.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "Either you have faith in The People to make sensible decisions or you don't. Take your pick."

    Choice!...

    One consequence of the Referendum 'process' has been a fairly unprecedented (in recent decades) interest in politics and political ideas.

    One potential downside is that after the next week or so (assuming something is 'settled') there could be 'politics fatigue' amongst most people, leaving the near future (Holyrood etc.) open - mostly - to the sort of people who used to be interested in 'politics'!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. le_soigneur
    Member

    Only a few years ago, the Greens were a lunatic fringe in some people's minds, Green-leaning folk can hardly complain if UKIP appeal to a significant section of Englandshire now.
    At least PR would allow the fringes to express/vent themselves.
    Anyhow the Holyrood poor-man's PR doesn't seem to have given any "extremists" a platform so that seems to give a lie to fears about PR giving "the legitimacy of a parliamentary seat" to <other peoples' loonies>.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "UKIP scare me. Seriously."

    Me too.

    "That's democracy...

    This is the messy truth."

    However, there are large swathes of the population who are not being represented. Whether people agree with their viewpoint or not, they have as much right to representation as anyone else, and only PR does that...

    Oh, and system aside, it kind of feels nice to vote, doesn't it. :)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. gembo
    Member

    Very nice community vibe down at the polling station just there. Spotted a couple I know who never voted before the referendum out exercising their democratic rights.

    The party 'officials' that I have seen today have all been very chatty and nice with each other. Both times I was down (only voted once) at the polling station. Perhaps as the result is going to be so one sided nobody is bothering much with political point scoring and everyone is being nice? Maybe it is just the sunny weather, maybe Balerno very chilled out? The referendum was much more fired up, higher stakes.? Megaphones for shouting up at Jim Murphy etc?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. minus six
    Member

  14. chdot
    Admin

    "

    THERE was a world of difference between the authentic election in Scotland and the sterile event south of the Border, writes John Mullin.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/john-mullin-soaring-scots-political-engagement-1-3765382

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "

    With UK Labour having decided to abandon any serious counter-narrative to the Conservatives on austerity, the mantle has fallen to regional parties and the Greens. This connects to Labour’s woes in Scotland where voters see austerity as one of the most significant issues in this election.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/dr-daniel-kenealy-death-of-broken-political-system-1-3765475

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

  17. wingpig
    Member

    Eurk. Exit poll saying blue plus orangey-yellow equals just enough.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Gerry Hassan (@GerryHassan)
    07/05/2015 22:23
    YouGov #exitpoll #GE2015 less dramatic: Tories 21 ahead of Lab; SNP on 48:
    Con 284
    Lab 263
    SNP 48
    LibDem 31
    Green 3
    Plaid 3
    UKIP 2

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    Green 3 seems a bit of a stretch though!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    "

    “Why is the debate across most of the UK so dull,” they ask, “when the stakes are so high?” And the answer surely lies partly in the strange two-speed politics the UK has developed over the past 18 months, since the Scottish referendum campaign offered voters north of the Border an exceptionally clear glimpse of a different possible future from the one proposed by David Cameron and George Osborne, and triggered a passionate increase in voter registration, turnout, and engagement that has not been mirrored elsewhere in the UK.

    "

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/comment-first-past-the-post-has-run-its-course-1-3766700

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Lesley Riddoch (@LesleyRiddoch)
    07/05/2015 21:45
    Rumours fm STV green room that Labour may have saved 6 seats in Scotland inc Dougie Alexander, Jim Murphy & Anne Begg

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. bdellar
    Member

    UKIP scare me as well, but it is only fair that they get representation if they have support.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. LaidBack
    Member

    Watching Bernard Ponsonby on STV. No Scottish results yet at 1.47. Too many voters it seems! Some good points from Lesley Riddoch.
    Kezia Dugdale and Derek Mackay having friendly banter about who copied what in their manifestos.
    Still some strange doubts about what the vote will mean. Exit poll shows that if all seats in Scotland had gone to Labour the UK would still be blue.
    My daughter's proxy vote never came through - she's not happy. Have asked the helpline what happened.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    So the first time I heard Ed Miliband speak on the radio I thought 'God, he'll never be PM'. I was ashamed of the thought at the time - judging a man by his voice - but as ever, my intuition was worth more than my intellect.

    Anyway, that looks like Scottish independence is pretty much a given now. We'd better get ready to be better apart.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    Well...!

    So the only correct poll was the exit one.

    Either a lot of people changed their minds with pencil in hand or there really are a lot of 'shy Tories' - or both.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. wingpig
    Member

    At least Brighton still green.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. Nelly
    Member

    "looks like Scottish independence is pretty much a given now"

    Really?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Stephan Shakespeare (@StephanShaxper)
    08/05/2015 07:17
    A terrible night for us pollsters. I apologise for a poor performance. We need to find out why.

    "

    (Guv of YouGov)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. LaidBack
    Member

    At least (almost) all shades of opinion are still represented in Scotland! 56 SNP, 1 LibDem, 1 Tory and 1 Labour (assume with a smaller majority). Of course Green is missing here but were not in to win a Scottish seat.

    I'm not surprised though as the campaigns run by the unionist parties were just too negative with warnings to the electorate about the dangers of not voting for usual suspects.

    Message was 'Westminster is a game for two parties and newcomers need not apply'.

    Someone said they were scared to live in a one party state (ie Scotland). With lopsided media coverage and a very blue southern half of the island this is an odd statement. Scotland's own parliament has a better voting system which reflects things here a lot better.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. SRD
    Moderator

    Ian Murray actually increased his % of the vote. As did Caroline Lucas in Brighton Pavilion.

    Saw something elsewhere saying that Tory vote up 1% and Labour up 4%? D nt know if that's true or not.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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