CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Lothian Buses

(21 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by Edinburgh Cycle Training
  • Latest reply from gkgk

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  1. I was invited into a meeting with the head of training for Lothian Buses last week. This was in response to an email conversation after I complained about a driver a few months back.

    The meeting was very positive, interesting and informative.

    Although nothing has been agreed or planned, I have an invitation to meet again to discuss cyclist awareness issues with their drivers in the near future, should I wish.

    Sorry if that sounds a bit woolly, but I don't want to jeopardise a fledgling relationship by being too blabby after one date!

    If any of you have a particular interest in this topic (Lothian Buses driving standards)and want to contribute and perhaps help in any initiatives we might come up with, please feel free to PM.

    I do feel this is a good opportunity to start something which would allow two way conversation and swapping of ideas in how cyclists and buses react with each other - again if you have ideas on how this could work - feel free to pitch in with a PM

    One thing I don't want - and I'm sure LB don't either - is an alternative complaints procedure. Complaining about driving or drivers is easy via their website, please stick to using that.

    I think there is a wee chance here to be proactive and perhaps build a positive relationship with a local company most city cyclists have to engage with on a regular but not always positive basis - maybe we can help them improve?

    As I say, all embryonic, but a door is open - theirs and mine!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    Perhaps you can mention that there seems to be a change in the way they deal with complaints.

    Previously they used to say that 'we have looked at camera recordings and...'

    Now the response seems to be 'we will look at the recordings and take action if necessary'.

    IF that is an official change of policy, it doesn't inspire confidence.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. condor2378
    Member

    While I agree with chdot that if the way complaints are being investigated has changed then that would be worrying.

    If it's just a change to the wording and the back end process is still the same, a driver will still be investigated, disciplined or vindicated for perceived dangerous driving, it may just be the final response to the complainant has changed then this seems like it could be an easy fix.

    It would seem that ultimately the aim should be to engage with LB and try to reduce the amounts of incidents which require a complaint in the first place, which will be a win/win for LB & cyclists alike?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    @condor

    Agree, but -

    I have only ever complained three times.

    After the first two I got emails confirming that my complaint was justified.

    The last time I complained it was after an unnecessary (and slightly frightening) overtake. The driver was completely unrepentant when I challenged him at the next bus stop.

    All this was (presumably) on video, but all I got was 'we will look at the video'.

    So I don't know if I was overreacting, or justified.

    This will make me less likely to complain in future - which might be fine for LB, but won't help with confidence in LB - which used to be very high.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    When Lothian Buses first went public about driver training you could clearly see it working from the way the drivers behaved, especially with ASL zones and it was extremely rare for any encroachment. Contrast it to now when they are the same as everyone else and more than half the time drivers will just drive into them.

    Perhaps it is time for Lothian Buses to carry out refresher training and to carry out regular spot checks of CCTV footage (regardless of complaints) to make sure standards are being maintained.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. fimm
    Member

    Yes, I've had some poor driving from Lothian Buses drivers recently. Including a chap who tried to overtake me while we were both heading for a red light. He ended up stationary to my left. Totally pointless because I can of course out-accelerate him on my bike.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. rust
    Member

    fimm, had exactly that from the driver of a number 5 today. Then later he overtook me only to pull straight into the next bus stop.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. minus six
    Member

    When Lothian Buses first went public about driver training you could clearly see it working from the way the drivers behaved, especially with ASL zones and it was extremely rare for any encroachment. Contrast it to now when they are the same as everyone else

    Yes, I've also noticed this recently

    rolling right into the ASL every time

    with their best "what, me bothered?" shrug

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. condor2378
    Member

    I remember a couple of years ago that LB & CEC put a bus and a bin lorry or gritter(?) in Festival Square and marked out the blind spots on the ground and let people sit in the cabs so they could actually see what the drivers could(n't) see while driving. Would that maybe of benefit so we can understand the "other side"?

    If it's not too soon it could maybe be tied in with the Festival of Cycling in some way, possibly?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. skotl
    Member

    Like many cyclists, I have experience of every kind of road-user within Edinburgh and I would say that (exceptions, err, excepted) that LRT drivers are far and away the most cyclist-aware and courteous of all drivers.

    I'm sure the training can be improved, and I'm glad that bikeability has been brought into the fold, but I'd applaud LRT's approach to cyclists. Comparing them to, for example, the Edinburgh taxi trade, shows the massive gulf.

    My near misses are pretty much 50/50 private drivers and black cabs - has anyone reached out to the taxi trade to see whether some cycle-awareness training would be well-received?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. gembo
    Member

    LB bus drivers on my routes still as excellent as ever. Still letting cyclists overtake when they are at a bus stop, not seeing any encroachment into the red boxes. Was recently overtaken by one which then stopped at a stop giving me a lung full of exhaust but on balance he had the room to do it and he didn't cut me up. He would have been very far sighted had he waited until I passed the stop. I have had drivers who have done this.

    However, any organisation with staff turnover will benefit from further training and reminders.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. dougal
    Member

    Is there an email address for Lothian Buses or do I have to use the web form on their website?

    https://lothianbuses.co.uk/customer-services/contact-customer-services#emailus

    Such forms are an excellent way of removing any record-keeping and tracking from the system.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    The contact form generates a mail from;

    Customer.Services@vded10952.servers.dedipower.ne

    There used to be a mail@lothianbuses.co.uk address, dunno if it still works.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. Frenchy
    Member

    CustomerServices@lothianbuses.co.uk works.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. dougal
    Member

    Thanks Frenchy. I used the form in the end, just so I wouldn't waste any more time on the issue.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    Councillor Lesley Macinnes, Transport and Environment Convener, said: “Lothian are doing a power of work to modernise their fleet and help us improve Edinburgh’s air quality. We very much welcome their efforts and look forward to hearing more about these new additions to their fleet in due course.”

    Nick Cook, Conservative Morningside councillor and member of the Transport and Environment Committee, said: “News that Lothian Buses are purchasing 40 cast-off buses will raise a few eyebrows, especially since they have just hiked passenger fares.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/london-buses-on-their-way-to-edinburgh-1-4677889

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. Ed1
    Member

    Possibly the council taking more money out requires Lothian bus to buy used, although it may be Lothian is buying the buses as tourist attraction I suppose it may depend on the shape of the bus

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/lothian-buses-set-to-hand-council-20m-to-fund-tram-extension-1-4341250

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. Funny how Nick Cook is suddenly showing concern about pollution when buses are concerned:

    "Given that Lothian buses rightly prides itself on its ‘green’ fleet, residents will also want assurances over the environmental credentials of these buses."

    Fine for residents to have an excess number of cars steaming about & emitting pollutants though, and for him to demand fewer 20mph zone though.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. acsimpson
    Member

    I suspect that these buses will be a lot newer than the ones they are replacing. IIRC tfl contracts normally mean London bus fleets are the youngest in the country.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. Morningsider
    Member

    If a five year old bus replaces a 10 year old bus, does it matter where it spent those five years? Is Nick Cook worried that there might be some ingrained smell of jellied-eels and London Pride?

    Anyway, Lothian has a comprehensive, environment focused fleet renewal strategy (Bus2020) and an agreement with Wrightbus for the supply of over 300 UK-built vehicles up to 2020. These buses might even be part of that agreement, as it isn't unusual for buses to be leased from the manufacturers or finance companies and for buses coming off-lease to move to other operators.

    Still, why would you expect a Tory to understand the workings of the free-market based, deregulated bus system?

    Details: http://www.wrightsgroup.com/news/news_item/LOTHIAN-BUSES-CONFIRMS-FOUR-YEAR-DEAL-AT-EURO-BUS-EXPO

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. gkgk
    Member

    My taxi driver the other night mentioned his (replacement) motor came from a London cab. Too fumey for London now. I think he said they can't install these older ones for Edb either now, and have to sell them overseas.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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