CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
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RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
I've heard a few tales of drivers successfully claiming off the council for pot holes damaging their cars.
Anyone had or heard of any similar successes for damage to cycles?
Took a big thump on the road at the East End this am. Thought I was lucky not to blow. I wasn't. Rear tyre was flat when I checked at lunchtime. On replacing the tube, I noticed a big ding in my rim.
Gutted :-(
The council will make you go through several hoops but I would suggest taking photos of the pothole and bike damage. I tried to claim for damage due to continual cycling on crap roads and named about 50-60 very bad sections I had cycled on in a week. They rejected it out of hand saying I couldn't do that :(. Good luck
Received a letter, a claim form and a CEC produced leaflet "PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE CLAIMS (A guide for claimants)"
The leaflet is in PDF form. If anyone is interested and wants a copy of it, PM me your email address and I'll forward it on
Is it the same as this one (2007 edition?) google found from their website, but the CoEC website own search doesn't show it easily.
My understanding is that most claims against Councils fail. For them to be responsible they either have to known about the fault and failed to have repaired/guarded the fault in proper time, or failed to inspect the road frequently enough to find out about it. As long as they meet their inspection standards, which on minor roads could be an annual inspection, they won't be held responsible for something they didn't know about.
The size of hole is also important - up to 40mm deep on the carriageway or 20mm on footway/cycleway is not a priority.
Just saying it was bad roads in general causing wear and tear wouldn't be enough: it would have to be a specific fault that was big enough to count, and was known (or should have been known) to the council, and hadn't been repaired in time.
That's why it's worthwhile reporting the large potholes pro-actively. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roadproblem
If you then end up being damaged / injured by them (e.g. other road users not allowing you to avoid them) you've at least got a record...
The Fix My Streets app on your phone is a good way to do this if you're out and about and spot something. Just take a snap and pin it to the map. Once it's been reported I believe that CEC has an obligation to (crappily) fill it in? My reports tend to get sorted to a degree of marginal acceptability within four weeks.
That's the one @slowcoach
They may indeed knock me back, but they can't use ignorance as an excuse. I'd contacted the Leith/City Centre team at least three times over the previous year about the increasing state of that junction and the dangerously increasing in size holes!
I reported a dangerous hole using FixMyStreet and it was fixed - several years after I reported it, as part of a total resurfacing of the road in that area.
I used the Edinburgh website a couple of months ago to report a pothole and it was being repaired* the next morning as I cycled past!
And I received a text update later that day to tell me it had been done too.
"I used the Edinburgh website"
Do you mean the council or FMS or?
"Do you mean the council or FMS?"
Report a problem with a pavement or road from the council website.
Ta
While fixmystreet is good, it is a black hole for some councils. Edinburgh tend to take the feedback, East Lothian certainly do not.
Reporting goes back to an earlier point made about the council's knowledge of potholes or problems. If someone claims damages for injury or wear & tear against a previously reported pothole or defect then the council is in a weaker position. Even if the problem is not repaired in good time at least it is logged.
I suppose the phone app just makes it easier to do report on the spot rather than remember to do later. CTC also has an app called Fill That Hole or something along those lines. There are a couple of app options, I think.
For 'other' issues there's -
http://edinburgh.cyclescape.org
This site (a spin-off from CycleStreets) has GREAT potential, but still needs more work (and users).
It has taken 3 months or so, but my claim has been settled.
I had claimed £160 for a new set of wheels. The council's insurer refused to pay for a set, only the item damaged i.e. my rear wheel to be repaired.
I gave them a verbal quote of £65 for a new rim, £35 for my wheel to be rebuilt, £20 for a tyre and £8 for a tube. The council's insurers have agreed to settle on this basis.
I'm pretty sure I could have won a better settlement, but TBH, I cannae be bothered with the fight. I think what they have now agreed to pay is not unreasonable.
I do see this as a success. Initially I expected rebuffed if not completely ignored.
Maybe, it might even help others suffering pothole damage to their bikes to complain, claim and win.
About half the claim time was the council passing it around internally, the last 6 weeks or so it was with their insurers. Their only contact was to ask me to provide a quote. Their acceptance of my quote was immediate.
No doubt, their bill to CEC for dealing with my claim will net them substantially more than the £129 they are giving me
Welldone @bikeability - great persistence.
I feel that the road quality for my commute at the minute is pretty poor and I dread to think what it will be post winter.
Hmm, potholes are topical for me, I had a run in with one at speed on Thursday evening.
The stretch of road below floods after a downpour, so the pothole was invisible to me. First thing I knew I was going over the handlebars and skidding along the road for 5m which resulted in 4 hours in A&E, and a hole in my elbow which goes as deep as the bone. I'm probably off the bike for a couple of months now as a result.
I've not checked my bike over fully yet as I can't lift it, but both gear levers are damaged, my handlebars are pointing in the wrong direction. Brooks saddle damaged, as is my pannier rack, and the frame boss which the rack attaches to is bent.
I've reported the pot hole to Fife Council, and to the 'fillthathole' website so hopefully it will be fixed soon. I don't want to seem like a vulture, but I'm sore, pissed off, and wondering if I do have any claim against the council.
The general consensus seems to be if they knew but didn't fix it - they are liable.
@Baldcyclist - that is awful. Glad there were no cars behind you when that happened. Wishing you a speedy recovery and hope that the council help in repairing of your bike.
Whereabouts was it?
I shall go out and report a couple that gave me a serious bump on the Fife side of my commute. If I and others can report a couple each month, will hopefully help prevent this happening to anyone else.
Have you got measurements of the hole, before it gets filled in? For road carriageways, holes deeper than 40mm and wider or longer than 300mm are easier to claim against. But comparing your link to fillthathole (above) with Fife's list of roads shows that this isn't an adopted road, so it might be different standards that apply. For footways up to 20mm may be allowed and this hole certainly looks deeper. For roads, there should be records of when it was last inspected and what state it was in then, and when the next inspection was due. Parks (?) may not have the same procedures, so it might be easier to claim against them.
@Paddyirish This is at Silver Sands in Aberdour, the wee road with the speed bumps which leads to the cafe.
Went down and got measurements, and photographs with measuring tape in place etc today.
The deep hole which took me down is over 2ft in diameter, and 110mm in depth. The 'stretch' of 3 pot holes is 11ft. I was unbalanced by the shallower ones before being taken out by the deep one.
Also now had a proper look at the bike today, and it definitely needs professional appraisal as I found:
Handlebars wrong way round, maybe bent.
Both wheels are buckled.
Forks look like they may have been bent back slightly.
Frame bent at boss for pannier.
Pannier rack is damaged.
Brooks saddle scraped.
Both gear levers damaged.
I'll wait for the appraisal, but I think I may need a new bike. Really annoying since it's a custom build and given it took me over a year to get it 'just so'. :(
Question is who i going to end up paying for it, suspect either way I'll be without a bike longer than I'm unfit to ride. :(
Bike has now been professionally appraised, and I have the report. Shop is still to prepare quote for works:
It has survived, but..
Both wheels are buckled, and also have flat spots (may need replaced).
Gear leavers need replaced.
Handlebars need replaced (of course expensive Nitto ones).
Pannier rack needs replaced.
Frame boss for rack needs bent back into place.
Saddle is scraped (cosmetic).
Rear mech scraped (cosmetic).
Regarding the cosmetic stuff, it's the saddle that really bothers me, is it taking the p*ss to claim for a new saddle?
I guess in the car world, if you'd hit a pot hole which ended up in a panel being scraped from swerving, then although cosmetic, your insurance company would insist it was fixed. Why not the same for bikes?
The front forks aren't bent after all, but in my head they are. TBH I'll probably just end up buying a new bike as I don't trust this any more after such a collision, brains are funny creatures!
As for me, my elbows goosed, but I'm pretty much stoned form the pain killers so don't care about that so much just now. man.
@baldcyclist
Sorry to hear that you're still in some pain, and the bike is very much *not* OK. It just goes to show how much damage can be done by 'just' a pothole, especially if it's rendered invisible.
In the car world, it might well have been a 'write off' situation. Shifters in particular are not cheap, and all the other components will add up to quite a tidy sum, which may approach the potential re-sale value of the bike. You're right to include everything though - as you say, if it were a damaged car, you and the insurance company would expect a full repair, cosmetic damage or not. So yes, why not claim for a new saddle. I don't suppose they'll want the old one back ;)
Get on to your local councillor if you are not completley happy. Even if its not an adopted road, they may be able to assist with who to sue for damages in the small claims court. Get well soon, and get back on a bike soon as keeping joints moving helps with rehabilitation believe it or not!
I'd agree with panyagua,
Whether the damage is cosmetic or functional if it's worth a claim then include it all. The more accurately claims reflect the actual damage the more damage to bikes will be taken seriously.
If it was an off the shelf bike then I suspect it would be a write off but with a custom build such as yours the write off value will (I guess) always be more than the replacement of individual components.
Cheers for advice, I'll make sure replacement for cosmetic damage is included in quote. My apple watch is also scratched and is on the list along with the base layer that had to be cut off me, and my helmet which is scraped (it didn't save my life ;) ).
I did speak to Cycle Law Scotland on the telephone the other day and sent them some images by email at their request, but I'm not sure if they are taking the case on or not. They didn't sound overly optimistic about getting a result, and I've not had a reply from the email I sent (what is it about lawyers (in general) and time taken to communicate things to people (no offence to lawyers / solicitors on this forum), just reply to emails...).
I'm not sure that local councillor can help other than to get it fixed, they're not going to help with anything which could be financially detrimental to their employer.
I've been searching the internet to see how long the pot hole has been there, but the clearest video is from about 6 weeks ago that shows it was there then. I've not found anything older. Some 2013 videos show road starting to break down but no pot hole.
If anyone has go pro footage of a ride to Silver sands in the last year or so that shows any pot holes then I'd be much obliged if you could pass location of video on.
Thanks.
"(what is it about lawyers (in general) and time taken to communicate things to people (no offence to lawyers / solicitors on this forum), just reply to emails...)"
Workload/caseload primarily. And for a practice such as that might be a lot of time spent in court and away from a computer to answer properly. Though if it gets daft just prod.
There's a corollary for lawyers that all clients seem to think you're only doing work for them and you're just sitting by the phone and computer waiting for a message to come in from them to spring into action ;)
I'd say definitely worth sticking to your guns, and absolutely 100% should be detailing everything on the claim. As others have mentioned, there really does seem to be a difference between cars and bikes when it comes to insurance (as I know from my own fights after having a couple of bikes nicked).
Ouch!
On a new for damaged basis, parts + labour + wheel build costs (but not including spokes or nipples, or hubs):
£503.29
That doesn't include other items, watch, helmet etc.
I think I'm becoming more inclined to get cycle insurance, as this is probably going to hurt financially as much as anything else.
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