CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

School No-Drive Areas

(78 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from urchaidh

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  1. We got a leaflet through the door from the council because we're reasonably close to two of the local primary schools, and a secondary, that are part of the extension into formal consultation of no-drive areas (coincidentally one of the roads being closed at certain times is Hamilton Drive, where the parking attendant was assaulted by a driver).

    Anyhoo, the photo attached is of the streets closing, which are those more or less directly beside the schools and (arguably*) most residential. The big main road through won't have the ban - which I can understand, while at the same time, knowing the schools, and having cycled, walked and driven through at dropping off and picking up time, it's chaos, and you can forget about using the bike lanes and ASLs on the main road at these times.

    There was a little list (of two items) that confused me in the document however. They note that other streets might be subject to more parking (hence us getting it, though I think we're a little too far away to be affected, we don't quite make it onto the map), and it states:

    "To mitigate the impact of this, we will be introducing measures ahead of the scheme launch, as required, including:

    - White Access Protection Markings across driveways; and

    - Cutting back of hedges."

    Two things strike me. At dropping off time the white lines won't make a difference, and likely not even at picking up (I was just waiting for a minute guv), and apart from anything it won't stop people parking in such a way around the white markings to make access ridiculously difficult; and.... how does cutting back of hedges help mitigate the impact of people parking in the streets around?

    I'm all for the move, I just think sometimes the way things are worded and presented is a little... odd....

    Untitled by Anthony Robson, on Flickr

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. The bikelane outside Porty High, up to the bailleyfield Rd crossroads would be an ideal one to make protected.

    There are no houses (except the unused Janny ones) where parking would be lost, and its pretty much entirely outside two schools.

    Protecting cyclists, and preventing dangerous/inconsiderate/illegal parking

    win/win

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. I actually noticed on that bike lane today, where they have built out crossings, but put a sort of raised cut through for the bikes, that the bike lane has a small zebra crossing painted on it, but that's not on the road. Tells you all you need to know about priorities!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. cc
    Member

    Hedges can block most of a pavement, if the pavement is narrow and the hedge ebullient, so people on foot have the choice of walking in the road or picking their way in single file along broken bits of kerb. No idea why hedge cutting may be relevant here but it's a very good idea in general.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. urchaidh
    Member

    Currently, the lane to the west of Hamilton Terrace on the school (north) side of duddingston road doesn't get parked up, but the south side does.

    The short section between Hamilton terrace and Bailleyfield road is a nightmare at school run time though:

    This needs at least temporary waiting restrictions.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. AIMC
    Member

    School Streets at Sciennes has been approved subject to regular monitoring.

    "The proposed scheme will not permit motor vehicles to enter, proceed along or exit a prohibited road during prohibited hours. 8.35-9.00 &14.40-15.30 Monday-Thursday and 8.35-9.00 &11.55-12.20 Fridays'
    Will be interested to see how this will be enforced.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "Will be interested to see how this will be policed"

    Will there be cones/barriers every day??

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. weezee
    Member

    Found the leaflet about our school's participation in Safer Streets next week stuffed at the bottom of a school bag. So it says "vehicles" are prohibited, but not specifically "motorised vehicles". Does that mean we can't cycle?

    I just don't want a very public ticking off on the day.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. SRD
    Moderator

    the *idea* behind it was to make it possible for kids on their own bikes should be able to cycle to school.

    no idea where electric-assist cargo bikes fit in legally, but I'd be surprised if someone stopped you.

    for peace of mind, you might drop a note to the headteacher and confirm?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "Does that mean we can't cycle?"

    Cycle to the school - I presume so.

    Rush past the school (not you of course!) - perhaps not(?)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. crowriver
    Member

    Over the past few weeks workers have been installing poles at the end of Abbey Street for what I assume will be be large electronic "No Entry" signs. Ban supposed to be happening soon, maybe this week?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. weezee
    Member

    Have just emailed the relevant person. Electric bikes still classified as bikes legally, but still a vehicle presumably.

    We'll proceed with caution.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Weezee, section 192 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states:

    (1) In this Act—

    “cycle” means a bicycle, a tricycle, or a cycle having four or more wheels, not being in any case a motor vehicle.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192

    Section 185 gives definitions of "motor vehicle", all of which are mechanically propelled (i.e., not human powered). Section 189 excludes by way of other regulations certain kinds of electrically assisted pedal cycles from the definition of "mechanically propelled".

    I would think your machine will be just fine, and less readily assumed to be electric than the torpedo. But "vehicles" is probably ambiguous shorthand for "motor vehicles".

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. urchaidh
    Member

    This comes into force a week today, the 22nd. I live opposite on of the schools, it's chaos in our street most mornings and I'm looking forward to it. Will report live from the front line next week.

    There was no option to request a residents' permit for my bike so I'm assuming I don't need one.

    As yet, no residents' permits have appeared and some of my neighbours are getting antsy about it. They've been asking if the start will be delayed if the permits don't appear.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. Going to be interesting to see what happens on the 22nd. We're two streets up from one of the schools, so keeping an eye on displacement - I'm a huge supporter of the idea, but also a total cynic when it comes to the inherent laziness of humans.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. And seeing your pic from a couple of months ago urchaidh, if that's the school you live opposite then we're talking about the same one.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. urchaidh
    Member

    The signs are up, cyclists relax...

    (photo credit to a neighbour)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    Great!

    Just what's needed throughout the city centre at 'rush' hour.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. Roibeard
    Member

    Wow - that's inspirational!

    This will be a truly fascinating experiment, and one I hope succeeds dramatically...

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. weezee
    Member

    I received an unequivocal 'bicycles allowed' email from the school I'm happy to report. I'll look out for the signs on our school.

    Thanks for the info Arellcat.

    Looking forward to next Tuesday.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    Just hope nobody gets mentioned in 'today's bad cycling' thread!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    No doubt the tree fixers will be along before Tuesday.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. crowriver
    Member

    Abbey Street, at the front entrance of Abbeyhill Primary, this morning:

    Timer/controller on the rear of the sign?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    Unfortunately the Sciennes closure is being postponed because the lights aren't connected to the electricity supply.

    At least they'll have time to trim the tree.

    Wonder if all the other schools are on schedule(?)!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. Nelly
    Member

    "Unfortunately the Sciennes closure is being postponed because the lights aren't connected to the electricity supply"

    Which seems rather odd given they dug the holes and inserted the poles days ago. You would have thought that the hole placement would be related to the leccy supply ????

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    Legal details of scheme

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tnxub49mzjkh3d/schoolroadclosures.docx

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    It's possible that flashing lights aren't required

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/section/64

    Presumably CEC wants uniformity.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Which seems rather odd given they dug the holes and inserted the poles days ago.

    Even the cooncil probably has to wait for SP Energy Networks (the transmission and distribution side of Scottish Power) to turn up when they feel like it to connect the supply.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. slowcoach
    Member

    Using flashing lights rather than time plates is similar to what was done with part-time speed limits for schools. It is easier for users to understand - not having to read so much detail and check current time - and times/days/dates can be adjusted more easily by controllers rather than changing numbers on the sign.
    I'd guess that the flashing lights and control equipment could have been run with a fairly small solar panel and battery instead of mains electricity, but might be more prone to damage.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. crowriver
    Member

    Flashing lights were switched on at Abbeyhill today. Also some large CEC information boards explaining the scheme surrounded several sign posts, including the new blinky one.

    Nice work Edinburgh Council!

    The need for the scheme was thrown into sharp relief by the cars zipping along Abbey Street and parking willy-nilly to pick up youngsters this afternoon...

    Oh I can confirm the School Streets scheme will be operational from TUESDAY, 22nd September.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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