CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Fountainbridge - open air market proposal / towpath block?

(25 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by Fountainbridge
  • Latest reply from Stickman

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  1. Fountainbridge
    Member

    http://edinburgh.stv.tv/articles/1323577-leith-market-to-launch-as-fountainbridge-market-plans-revealed/?fromstreampost=233116

    Planning app - https://goo.gl/NwelEI

    "And it's all go for the team - as Leith prepares for launch, plans have been submitted to open a new Friday market at Fountainbridge, situated beside the canal at Edinburgh Quay."

    One issue I've spotted is that they intend to use the "Private Lane" from Fountainbridge to the Canal tow path to load and unload vehicles. Won't this be rather unsafe?

    Basically the area marked in red will be off limits during setup and breakdown.

    "Market traders will be able to unload their vans at the side of the former Cargo unit which is a private road. Vans will not be loaded or unloaded directly from Fountainbridge, in order to avoid any impact on the current highway network."

    Capture by Paul Fountain, on Flickr

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. gembo
    Member

    I usually come off / get on the canal at the road along at the lift bridge to avoid the cobbles. That would work for anyone else too.

    The lift bridge has been up twice this week involving going up the steps with bike.

    I suppose it depends what sort of market the traders provide? Artisan bread or cheap tat?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. jdanielp
    Member

    Artisan tat?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. gembo
    Member

    Cheap bread would be too much to hope for

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. Rosie
    Member

    I go through the courtyard of Quay 2 to avoid the worst of the cobbles at the exit to Fountainbridge. Slower but means your mudguards aren't shaken off.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    @rosie, yes I go that way too, passed the pub that had a golf theme, now closed down.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. Chug
    Member

    @Rosie, I go that way too, but it still brings you out half way along the lane.

    That lane marked for restriction is a core path - can it just be blocked at the drop of a hat?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. "That lane marked for restriction is a core path - can it just be blocked at the drop of a hat?"

    I suspect so, if there's a correctly processed order and it's for a specified temporary period of time (exactly like closing down a road or the like, and if it's just during setup and takedown it's not for the whole time the market is there). Where's morningsider when you need him?

    Potentially annoying if you use that route all the time I guess, but if I was in the area and that was happening I'd just use the path on the other side of what used to be Cargo and onto the road past the taxi garage, popping back over the lift bridge. If anything it means less time on cobbles...

    EDIT: of course what would be nice, given it's a cycle route, is if they put up proper cycle diversion signs.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. wingpig
    Member

    Might lead to a brief bit of conflap on the bit between the dropped kerb directly opposite Gardner's Crescent and the narrower channel the other side of Cargo Akva.
    Although the cobbles on the east/north side between the lift bridge and Zizzi/Beanscene/golfpub are bad, those on the west side are worse, though at least one can now escape early to Lochrin Buildings rather than go all the way to Lower Gilmore.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    I wish we had problems like this in Musselburgh. We have the waterside setting (sea and river), we have the NCN76 cycle route (through town a back road and some signage) and from yesterday we even have a Sunday market (in an hotel car-park). Chances of the three things coming together?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  11. Morningsider
    Member

    Section 7 of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 exempts core paths from the restrictions on access rights that apply to other land. This includes restrictions on access by legislative means, e.g. a traffic regulation order. This provision is to prevent landowners from coming up with novel means of denying access to core paths.

    Is erecting a temporary market over a core path "legal"? I reckon it probably is - if you are still able to walk or possibly cycle slowly through or around the market. As long as you aren't denied access then it is difficult to see how the core path designation could stop this.

    Personally, I think cyclists should just roll with this stiff. Ask the market organisers to make provision for bikes, including parking for the market. Much more positive than simply objecting to things which are a minor irritation at the most - and build a few more cycling allies in the process.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "Personally, I think cyclists should just roll with this stiff. Ask the market organisers to make provision for bikes, including parking for the market. Much more positive than simply objecting to things which are a minor irritation at the most - and build a few more cycling allies in the process."

    Wise.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. Chug
    Member

    True - the market is likely to be a positive for this area.

    But it will be a chunky impediment to a major cycling and walking commuter route while it sets up and in the evening (it is due to continue to 7pm).

    I suppose my objection is that we are not seeing this application for Festival Square, with restrictions on vehicular use of Lothian Rd during set up time....

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. "I suppose my objection is that we are not seeing this application for Festival Square, with restrictions on vehicular use of Lothian Rd during set up time...."

    Presumably not necessary given the location, the width of the road, the ease of access directly from the road onto the square. For the Fountainbridge market they've got to use one of two corridors, and I suspect the one they are using is wider (pretty sure it is) and certainly doesn't have as restrictive a height limit.

    Not really sure I'd agree it's a 'chunky' impediment, given the diversion is 30 yards to the left, but noted I don't use the route a lot so can't really comment on how much of a delay that would cause.

    For the Castle Terrace farmers market every week they suspend parking, which allows the setup to be directly from the road, something else which isn't possible in the Fountainbridge location (and if they were to close one lane of the road that would, of course, also remove the cycle lane on the road - so the choice is create a diversion of 30 yards or, using the road, put cyclists travelling east to west into a lane with traffic when they had a cycle lane, plus possibly block the ability to cross the road to access either of the corridors).

    And parking and use of streets by motor vehicles is restricted reasonably often in the city for many and varied events (marathon, various other runs and marches and walks, during the Fringe).

    Yes, cycling in this city is more difficult than it needs to be, but this particular example isn't just an attack on cyclists that wouldn't be levelled at other transport choices, it's really a natural restriction if you're going top host something like that in that location.

    I like Morningsider's solution - engage with the market folk on cycling provision.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. SRD
    Moderator

    This proposal also comes with the baggage of unnecessary and inappropriate vehicle parking in what is allegedly a pedestrianised/shared use space. this is one further encroachment on top of repeated violations of space where pedestrians and cyclists ought to feel 'safe' but instead have to dodge vehicular movements.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. Certainly more of an issue.

    Although if they were parked on the road then all the kit has to be carried over the entirety of the pedestrian space travelling east to west; whereas by parking on the pavement near the corridor they are using then the pavement east to west can still be used (nearest the road), and pedestrians can use the other corridor the same as cyclists.

    What would be interesting is to know how, if the market is to take place at this exact location, people would rather it was set up. I personally can't see much other option that would be practical. Arguably park at the end of Lochrin Place or West Tollcross? A lot further to carry the set up stuff, but I suppose would be less of an impact? (would mean closing the 'other' side to pedestrians and cyclists, and both streets are dead ends so no through traffic to block - suspend resident parking there for the duration?).

    Other thoughts?

    (I'd still go with Morningsider's solution).

    Posted 10 years ago #
  17. Rosie
    Member

    Declaration of interest. I work in Fountainbridge at Quay 2. There's a dearth of shops. I find the idea of a Friday market absolutely brilliant. I don't care that I might have to carefully push the cycle or circumvent it one day a week. Fountainbridge is a developing area and needs life in it as well as apartments.

    Opening up the canal was one of the best things that has happened to Edinburgh. It is a great space, as demonstrated by last Saturday's Canalfest. It should be used to the full. It's not as if this is a swift through route anyway.

    So I wouldn't moan about what is a minor irritation and would go with what Morningsider says.

    Cycling advocacy does lead to consideration of general urban design, ie making cities people friendly as well as cycle friendly rather than car friendly.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. Morningsider
    Member

    I've had a quick gander at the planning documents. The market would sit clear of the cycle route and only occupy the new(ish) hard standing area between Akva (formerly Cargo) and the canal basin. I appreciate that there would be some disruption during set-up and close down. However, I feel such minor inconveniences are far outweighed by the benefits of proposals like this.

    I notice that Union of Genius is mentioned in the "detailed supporting letter" as a potential tenant. They seem supportive of cycling and have posted on CCE in the past. I honestly think it would be better to work together on this to establish how to arrange parking to the benefit of both cyclists and market traders, rather than simply to oppose the proposal.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    "Cycling advocacy does lead to consideration of general urban design, ie making cities people friendly as well as cycle friendly rather than car friendly."

    Agree.

    (Though I might swap "does" for 'should'...)

    "only occupy the new(ish) hard standing area between Akva (formerly Cargo) and the canal basin"

    That's not actually a very big space/market.

    On Saturday there were stalls there and all along the hoardings and past Leamington Bridge, so plenty of scope for expansion.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. Chug
    Member

    I am fully supportive of the market - I agree that there is a dearth of shops in this area.
    I would really like to have my concerns regarding market/commuting compatibility shown to be misplaced. However, the accompanying letter makes no mention of cycling or the core path. I just have a nagging doubt that once access is opened up, the rest of the tow-path to Leamington Bridge could become a car park for stall holders.
    I don't think this is some great anti-cycling conspiracy, more just a proposal which maybe hasn't been thought through thoroughly.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  21. Rosie
    Member

    Now the Friday market has been running for a couple of months it has not done anything to thwart cycling and it has improved the quality of Fridays no end. Totally yummy food & a bit of life in an area which is still fragmented but will ultimately be pleasant and lively.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  22. spytfyre
    Member

    I think I will just continue cycling up round by the back of the busienss and flats and out onto the path, if there is a blockage first week I go through I will just go back the following week without my mobile or anything valuable on me and wind up with a stall in the water... (joking of course)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  23. Fountainbridge
    Member

    has not done anything to thwart cycling

    That's because there was a specific condition put in the planning approval that the path must be kept clear at all times and all vehicles must be removed from site during operation. That also includes the cobbled area near the lifting bridge which was used as a car park during other markets.

    As a side note funding has been provided to "fix" the cobbles on that section to make them more bike friendly.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  24. Rosie
    Member

    @Fountainbridge - thanks for that. Good about the cobbles as they shake the fillings out of yer teeth.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  25. Stickman
    Member

    Only been once to it but it was really good. Have just added a reminder to my calendar to go every Friday. Beats the work canteen.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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