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Cyclist's-eye view of it
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Haymarket
(113 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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It even includes the mandatory taxi refusing to give way.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well the cyclist moved out of the lane didn't he.... :-/
Posted 8 years ago # -
NOPE.
Posted 8 years ago # -
And the taxi was clearly in the right hand lane when the rider shoulder checked before crossing the tram lines.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Holy smoke, did any one even consider this lane when they paid for it to be laid. FFS.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hadn't noticed that taxi was in outside lane @acsimpson. You're right. He pulled across for absolutely no reason. I freeze framed and in the best view, could only get SF03 2** of the number. He/she needs reporting.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"NOPE"
Not out of the cycle lane, but the cycle lane crosses a dashed line indicating the edge of a junction, so technically the cyclist did leave the traffic lane (I'm not saying that the driver was then correct in the slightest, because that red line should make it clear what's happening, but it's basically another example of how conflict has been designed in).
And yeah, hadn't noticed the taxi had been in the outside - entirely unnecessary shift left!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Looking back at original clip, it's SF03 ZZR, the pass was close enough to read the hand-painted "No. 585" below the passenger window!
Posted 8 years ago # -
It's like that thing where a signpainter diligently follows a client's instructions and produces a twenty-foot-high spelling mistake - do the people laying it not think "hang on..." at any point and check that they're really supposed to be plastering a swervey squiggle of pointy red stuff, less than a metre wide in places, in a place where they're only allowed to plaster things when trams are out of service and traffic has been kept away?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Here's a reminder of why it needs sorting PROPERLY - just received this from a friend...
"One of my colleagues started commuting this year, after being quite nervous about it. Unfortunately she came off at Haymarket last Monday on the tram tracks, broke some fingers, big bruises, and had to cancel a holiday & will lose income as self employed."
Posted 8 years ago # -
Some white paint, including a random dotted line, has appeared...
Posted 8 years ago # -
@HankChief, she needs to be making a claim to the Council!
@fimm, that's the kind of statement that really needs no more than you've said. I think we all understand exactly what you're saying absolutely perfectly.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I assume it has something to do with giving way to lane-shifting taxis?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Just taxis? Know your place Min!
Posted 8 years ago # -
I was rather hoping you would tell me I was wrong but I should know better.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I have been to view the area. To call the latest additions mere "paint" is to do them a disservice. They may appear to be millimetres-thick layers of thermoplastic, but our simple eyes may not perceive their true form - whilst allowing the free passage of kittens, orphans and cyclists o'ertop them they firmly rebuff attempts to encroach thereupon by taxicabs and public omnibi as would a metres-thick wall of stout concrete and steel. The bold vaguely-cycle-shaped stencils and firmly-dashed lines leave none in doubt of whose space is denoted by the light sprinkling of red grit in the gutter, assuredly protecting those who use it from all vehicular threat and ill.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've no idea why anybody even tries to navigate that particular junction. Depending on time of day, I tend to either follow something akin to the diversion that was in place during the works to come out at Donaldson's (early morning/late night), or just go Gorgie/Russel Rd (daytime).
Granted my old commute was out to Clermiston so any added time was negligible as compared to the hazards of dealing with that mess.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've no idea why anybody even tries to navigate that particular junction
Because if everyone reacts by avoiding the junction we will have solved the problem for them: Rewarding disastrously awful design & allowing the council to do it again somewhere else.Posted 8 years ago # -
Fair enough. Seems an awfully dangerous way to make a point though, imo.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Also, if you didn't have much idea of how to get around town (a visitor maybe) and didn't know any alternative route, shouldn't you be able to trust the cycle infrastructure to keep you safe?
Posted 8 years ago # -
@chug that's a key point. Those of us who know the junction will develop their own strategy and get through. Those who are approaching it for the first time, or first few times, are really at risk.
Posted 8 years ago # -
CEC's position:
Firstly, it is worth noting that the measures in place as of 4 August 2015 at Haymarket
were in a state of partial completion. It was not possible to finish the work during the
night of 30 July 2015 when it was undertaken - further work is programmed for the night
of Thursday 6 August 2015.The measures that we are introducing have been carefully considered in the light of a
video survey looking at cyclists’ behaviour. This established that the vast majority of
cyclists take a route close to the kerbside through the Haymarket junction. The issue
that appears to be causing cyclists to fall off is leaving this route somewhat earlier than
the crossing location that people are guided to by the markings that are currently being
installed and then crossing the tram lines at too shallow an angle. The new design
seeks to guide cyclists to cross the tracks at a location where it is possible to
manoeuvre to achieve a safer crossing angle. It is particularly aimed at guiding cyclists
who are unsure how to best deal with the crossing manoeuvre.The design has been the subject of a Road Safety Audit. Comments made by the
auditor have been carefully considered and responded to. The removal of vehicle lane
markings through the junction area was in response to comments made in the Road
Safety Audit.The path that the new markings advise cyclists to take does occupy the space between
the inner tram rail and a pedestrian island. However, signalling of the main Haymarket
junction means that a tram and a cyclist cannot both be given green lights to enter this
area at the same time. On balance we have taken the view that the new markings
represent an improvement in guiding cyclists to a safer crossing point of the tram rails.The sharpness of the deviation away from the traffic flow implied by the markings in the
part-completed scheme will be amended when the project is completed. The markings
are intended primarily to guide cyclists through the area where they cross the tram rails,
hence they stop after the second set of rails have been crossed. Continuing the lane
further would have introduced other design issues on the approach to the pedestrian
crossing and the Haymarket bus stops.Whilst we understand the route through the junction that the e-mail correspondent
describes, only a small proportion of cyclists were observed taking this route, as is
acknowledged in the e-mail. This reflects the fact that many people would not feel
confident taking such a route. Taking this route via the outside lane would expose
people doing so to increased danger from following motor vehicles.We consider that reducing the number of marked vehicle lanes will lessen the risk of
two motor vehicles in parallel seeking to pass through the tram rail crossing area at the
same time as a cyclist. This circumstance involves narrow passing distances and little
room for manoeuvre in the case of any errors, or indeed when seeking to cross the tram
rails.Finally, we are in the process of designing further measures for this area which we
would hope to implement by spring 2016.I hope that you find our response helpful.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"carefully considered".
Am I wrong to be sceptical?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Finally, we are in the process of designing further measures for this area which we
would hope to implement by spring 2016."So - 'interim', 'not as good as it could/should/will/may be(?)
Posted 8 years ago # -
So they've applied their fixes
Good
- Less bumpy
- Wider at the curve
- Dashed line seems to keep the traffic further awayBad
- To make it less bumpy they've scraped it in places and glued more clippings to the top. This has resulted in lots of loose material. In some places the original surface of the road is already visible!
- Material dribbled on to tram lines
- Still a terrible surface. Mudguard bits show first casualty from the vibration
- Busses clipping the end with the rear of their bus as they pull across
- Old road markings still very visiblePictures:
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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That's one for the @BollocksInfra twitter feed I think...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Coloured surfacing to extend from kerb edge to 20mm short of filler at edge of track. The edge should be chamfered.
Posted 8 years ago # -
A further 'refinement' to this could be to hatch off the inside 'lane' (with white lines) to traffic just after the entrance to the jug handle. And add a white arrow (curving to the right) beforehand to encourage motorists to merge.
Would help to keep motor traffic out of the cycle lane near its end, by getting motors to merge early and following a more consistent radius around the corner.
Posted 8 years ago #
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