CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Haymarket

(113 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by Edinburgh Cycle Training
  • Latest reply from neddie

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  1. tk
    Member

    Its a real shame they didn't put a solid white line down the edge as there was space to do so with the road markings (almost) removed. It could have had end of cycle lane markings and signs to warn cyclists of the end and stopped further along the bus stop area.

    Even better, I would have built out islands either end of the bus stops creating a two or three bus long area and merged the cycle lane back into the main lane here. Given there is almost almost stopped buses it wouldn't lose much for cycling and would also help where any vehicle needs to turn left onto Haymarket Yards

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. neddie
    Member

    White hatching (shown as dark grey):

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. tk
    Member

    That would make a lot of sense. Making Roseberry Crescent exit only on to the A8 would also help as most of the snarl up is from Taxis trying to turn right from the A8 heading West. That would keep free flowing traffic in the main lane away from the bus area

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. wingpig
    Member

    Rosebery is supposed to be going to be proposed to be exit-only as part of the Roseburn-Leith project.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. acsimpson
    Member

    I had the misfortune to drive through there tonight so thought I'd add a comment from a driver's eye view, thankfully it was quiet at the time and I knew what was coming so was prepared.

    There are two lanes coming into the junction but as you cross the right hand one has those filter arrows telling you to merge left. You then come round the corner and can clearly see where the old markings were burnt out with no effort to disguise them which combined with remaining paint over the tram lines could leave you mistakenly thinking that the right hand lane was being removed and you are asked to move into the left hand cycle lane.

    Even if you know there is only one lane if you aren't paying attention (and lets be honest we've all met motorist who aren't) you could easily end the corner in the cycle lane, however the lane here is now very wide even by motor vehicle standards so there would be no problem manoeuvring round a traffic island or some bollards had the lane been made mandatory.

    Baring incidents caused by shoddy workmanship or falls on the tracks while following the wiggle I suspect the council is trying to blame shift for any incidents from them to the motorists and I hope the fact that they have had the flaws pointed out to them so early on will be held against them until they implement the spokes scheme which they have as far as I'm aware agreed is the best solution.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. Stickman
    Member

    When I cycled through last night the cars parked in the drop-off area were backed out on to the start of the marked lane. Just like the good old days when the taxi rank was there.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. Beano
    Member

    The amount of Peds I come across just wandering along it or crossing the bike lane without looking is crazy. Although I do slow down, the next guy might not. The guy last night was oblivious that he'd just wandered out on to a bike lane without looking. Just as well I was a bike and not a car!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    Not related as such, just another problem/opportunity that may or may not have been factored into getting things 'right'

    "

    BUSINESSES who feared they would suffer water works after major tram building disruption have been granted a reprieve.

    Scottish Water had been due to begin work on Haymarket Terrace by September, increasing the size of the sewer to reduce flood risk.

    But yesterday utility chiefs announced the project – expected to last six months – will now be held off until 2017.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/haymarket-roadworks-delayed-after-tramworks-agony-1-3856077

    At least the delay will give pause for thought.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. Tulyar
    Member

    I note that the spec for the road markings says the DKE dots for the tram have to be put back.

    From the crap standards for the work done on the red surfacing and thermoplastic road markings, I'm not that confident that the DKE markings will be competently restored, and put a further skid/deflection hazard on this strip of vastly over-painted carriageway.

    Looking at the profile of the red surfacing and the thermoplastic markings, it would appear from initial sight of the work that neither the markings not the surfacing is properly compliant with the standards for surface flatness/thickness of coating/skid resistance etc.

    A pretty poor job, and the detail still retains the key hazard of the cyclist making a move which potentially puts side forces on the tyre contact patch as this crosses embedded rails, which are not close to flush with the abutting poured seals, which in turn have had to be patched up to make an even less safe crossing on to uneven and patchy surfaces of metal or rubber where the repairs have spilled over the rail keepers.

    The more patch jobs that are being done the worse it gets.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    @Tulyar There's also a loose chunk of rail-side concrete which looks suspiciously like it might have been chipped-loosened by the process of having the original inter-lane dotted line removed. I keep meaning to pop over to get a picture of it.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. wingpig
    Member



    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    Looks a bit serious!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. Tulyar
    Member

    Grief has TiE inspection picked this up I wonder?

    Unlike most tram systems outside the UK we have a paranoia about the return current finding alternative routes to travelling through the running rails, and thus leaking out to find an earth return path via cast iron pipes and other services buried in the street. This means that the steel gauge ties widely used elsewhare are anathema to the designers of UK street track and the rails are thus 'planted' in to reinforced concrete 'pockets' which are those 20 cm wide concrete strips with the upper surface/final pour in the modified design of Edinburgh track poured in black coloured concrete, with the gap between this and the steel filled with a poured seal (various types are available - but one commonly used type cannot be poured in wet weather, and has other constraints). Trior to the black concrete solution the core pockets finished below the tarmac and what is now black coloured concrete was laid as a 6mm Dense Bitumenised Macadam or similar. This did not survive at all well - especially on Princes Street. Before it got to the condition seen on Bilston Road in Wolverhampton (chunks of the top 50mm of tarmac broken away leaving big holes) TiE got the tarmac replaced with black coloured concrete.

    Chances are that the structural pocket below is not compromised but clearly the upper concrete screed has not bonded well to the track structure below and broken away. What a contrast to the Phase 1 track in Nottingham, on which I worked with Pedals to deliver a robust top surface. Unlike Manchester, Sheffield, Croydon and Wolverhampton, which in their own ways each needed remedial works, this original Phase 1 track still looks little different to the detail we got nearly 20 years ago.

    The detailing on the embedded rail tracks Edinburgh also remains rough, by comparison with the old and new Nottingham tracks, and the newest Manchester tracks being installed by the MPT consortium.

    In short this is probably not a structural issue but does pose the question of how well the upper layer of concrete is actually connected to the elements below, and if that is one fault are there any others we may discover.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. Tulyar
    Member

    @wingpig Just looking more closely at your middle picture, there is a crack in the finishing screed right the way across the tram line, about 20cm away from the joint line, suggests something not quite right under the upper layer of concrete?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "In short this is probably not a structural issue"

    Probably (though your second post may be revising that opinion?) BUT is extra hazard for bikes - esp if more starts breaking away.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Let's see the cooncil try and fix this with a shovel-full of soft asphalt pounded in by the force of a workies' boot alone.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Pounded? The old repairs on Kilgraston Road seemed to rely on the force of gravity alone.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. acsimpson
    Member

    They've dropped some on Brae Park Road too. I hadn't even noticed the potholes they filled but certainly feel the repairs if I hit them.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. HankChief
    Member

    Here in Wales they have also gone for the non-standard sign

    Rails warning by HankChief, on Flickr

    But atleast they have put in a proper cycle route that crosses the tracks at 90 degrees, however, you then get a give way sign before returning to main carriageway.

    Rail avoiding cycle route by HankChief, on Flickr

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. rbrtwtmn
    Member

    Yet another injury from someone falling off a bike at Haymarket this afternoon. Ambulance was in attendance. Local observer described what we've seen there so often. I've given up posting about the people I've picked up there....

    Posted 9 years ago #
  21. tk
    Member

    Think they were heading East and they walked in to the ambulance so hopefully not too bad

    Posted 9 years ago #
  22. rbrtwtmn
    Member

    Local observer said the injured person had walked to the other side of the road having previously been heading West, falling off crossing the line.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  23. neddie
    Member

    Apparently there are some plans in the pipeline to rework the cycle lane outside Haymarket Station:

    "to deliver a low-cost intervention which will involve repositioning the existing island outside the station to enable the cycle lane to be realigned. This will then allow cyclists to cross the tramlines at a less severe angle than under the existing layout"

    Posted 8 years ago #

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