CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

"George Street traffic changes: Have your say"

(82 posts)

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  1. Stickman
    Member

    I'm going along after work. If people who can't make it want me to specifically raise anything then let me know.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. wingpig
    Member

    I'll try and squeeze in at lunchtime wearing trousers, then again on the way home, when I might be able to wear a normal red normal T-shirt instead of a fluoroyellow technical T-shirt, but I'd be lugging a pannier around in any case which would sort of give the game away. Also, my face also tends to screw up involuntarily whenever I hear someone recommending that extra statues are installed to maintain the balance of the street or whenever I read a post-it associating the provision of parking spaces with high-value custom.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. Chug
    Member

    Careful about going at lunchtime (late lunch?):

    The open day at the Assembly Rooms, George Street, on Friday will run from 2pm- 7pm.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. shuggiet
    Member

    Went along and made many written comments. Design is still trying to be all things to everybody. Very busy with lots of cyclists disguised in suits, or maybe they aren't people who cycle.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. wingpig
    Member

    What's the format this time? Is there another table covered in printouts to which one can attach Post-Its?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. stiltskin
    Member

    Is it worthwhile going in disguise? It will be a bit of a nuisance but I could if people think it might be necessary.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Edinburgh Council (@Edinburgh_CC)
    02/10/2015, 14:32
    Today's session is under way. Drop in before 7pm to share your views http://bit.ly/1KO5TbS

    http://pic.twitter.com/UqZjlZT7T1

    "

    Missed a lot of comments by not being open at lunchtime.

    Gonna have to be very keen to go after work on a Friday...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. ARobComp
    Member

    Going to go after work

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. shuggiet
    Member

    yep @wingpig.. Big tables laid out in middle with plans which you can attach post-its, as well as sheets where you can write comments.

    @stiltskin - don't think it really matters what you wear, as the comments are not clothing related.. Might make a small difference if you decide to speak to one of the consultants, but from overhearing what he was saying to an avowed 'cars must park supporter', who was saying 'the traffic used to flow freely in 1989', I think they are pretty on-message for the hierarchy of pedestrians first, cyclists second, public transport third..

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. Klaxon
    Member

    Another Ironside Farrar consultation much in the model of their previous. They've mocked up completely traffic-free plans on the wall, but I get the impression they are afraid of council push back if they reduce parking. Go tell them those plans are the ones they need to be developing futher.

    To save you some thinking time at the event, the proposal as printed out on the table with post it notes has this space allocation throughout the entire length.

    So really, it's quite straightforward good practice compared to most of what's in the city just now. I'd take it on any other street but don't understand the continuing obsession with George St parking.

    It's strongly implied that any cycle facilities break at each junction but I don't know if Ironside Farrar will be doing the final detailed design or the council.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. wingpig
    Member

    I think Ironside Farrar's current spate of involvement ends with the completion of the datagather following the windup of the eTRO. They could presumably be re-hired for the actual implementation-planning-consultation. Can't remember who the consultants were on the Roseburn-West End (Haymarket subsection) consultation/workshop thing.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. DaveC
    Member

    How much car parking is the New St James Centre going to offer?

    Currently its 530 with an additional 990 in Greenside.

    Perhaps we should be advocating a pedestrianised George St? With bus and tram provision at ~200m from anywhere on the street and over 1500 car parking spaces less than 500m away why is there any need for any door step parking other than Disabled? People drive to Alton Towers and the fact you can't take your car in the park doesn't stop them.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Moderator

    what davec said

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. Stickman
    Member

    I take it a consultation response of "just b****y well copy the Dutch you fools" wouldn't go down well?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "I take it a consultation response of "just b****y well copy the Dutch you fools" wouldn't go down well?"

    It's probably (nuanced) exactly what they need to be told - frequently.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. Stickman
    Member

    Well, I did my best....I was speaking to one of the consultants and asked why we were trying to reinvent the wheel again and why not just copy Europe. To summarise the response - "reasons".

    I did get the sense that she was frustrated as well, but had to work within the current "public attitudes to cars".

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. PS
    Member

    I thought it was pretty promising - bike lanes protected by parking! I loaded up a bunch of post it notes to suggest, amongst other things, no parking in the Assembly Rooms block to create a proper public space, and continuous pavements across side roads, but didn't have time to speak to a consultant to determine whether some of the words on the posters were hinting at long term plan of gradual pedestrianisation or if that was wishful thinking on my part.

    Spotted wingpig and ARobComp giving things a thorough evaluation too.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. Stickman
    Member

    PS: I must have been there at the same time as you as I spotted those two as well.

    The consultant I spoke to gave the impression that pedestrianisation is the ultimate aim. She said that they wanted to make sure that any developments wouldn't jeopardise long-term changes.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    "but had to work within the current "public attitudes to cars"."

    Yes..

    Which is what politicians are for - to lead/inspire/blah blah...

    For all that 'we' are a noisy minority, I (like to) think that the 'we must be allowed to park anywhere' mob are not representative (even of car owners).

    Remember the 'we are against 20mph' demo?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. wingpig
    Member

    I overheard one "it's a bit anti-car, isn't it?" from a Member of the Public, but the consultant did at least start off trying to convince her otherwise.

    IMG_20151002_164256287 by wingpig, on Flickr

    IMG_20151002_164354071 by wingpig, on Flickr

    IMG_20151002_164512728 by wingpig, on Flickr

    IMG_20151002_164535231 by wingpig, on Flickr

    IMG_20151002_164639515 by wingpig, on Flickr

    IMG_20151002_164655679 by wingpig, on Flickr

    IMG_20151002_170933884 by wingpig, on Flickr

    IMG_20151002_203723368 by wingpig, on Flickr

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. ARobComp
    Member

    pleased I went along. Certainly felt that it's not terrible, and most of the post it notes had some good things to say.

    My main points were to get some good arguments against the post its which suggested that buses should be prioritised over cycling...

    Also suggested that no railings shou;ld be in use anywhere, and also hat No parking on various blocks should be implemnented regularly to stop people getting into the habit of parking.

    I heard another stat the other day that 35% of traffic in a city centre street at any one time is looking for a place to park... Not sure how true that is but he was a gvmnt infra guy.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. dougal
    Member

    Popped in before six but had to then dash for prior engagement - @wingpig was there and some other cycling-and-not-hiding-it-well types who might be from hereabouts also.

    Find it frustrating reading other people's comments and thinking "Yes, I agree with this - should I just go around with a pen and mark +1 on anything that seems sensible?". I felt I had little to add that wasn't said already but wanted to identify which comments had "popular support" (that's me) and which comments were from lone idiots (obviously not me).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. Klaxon
    Member

    George St transcends blanket statements of 'do what the Dutch do' because pedestrianisation isn't exclusive to those areas at all. It's standard treatment for historic city centre areas all across Europe.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Stuart Hay (@StreetWurrier)
    02/10/2015, 21:24
    George Street needs to be walking street if it's going to be a living street @fountainbridge @fountainbridge

    http://pic.twitter.com/FWrLO7b1vA

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    I think 'we' - people who ride bikes to get places - need to think about all this.

    I expect most want fewer vehicles, much less parking and 'pedestrianisation'.

    Rose Street style? - ok that's much narrower, but the principle of shared space with NO cycle lanes is the way it works (not as a prime east/west cycle route).

    Is 'pedestrianisation' UK/Edinburgh style workable with segregated cycle lanes? Is that the desirable compromise?

    I'd be quite content with George Street having 'bicycles by consent' - ie where bikes had to go slowly and expect to meet casual peds.

    BUT that would 'need' serious cycle provision on Princes Street (not likely unless they remove most buses), or Queen Street - not 'possible' until CEC willing to seriously restrict city centre traffic.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. paulmilne
    Member

    If we were to take the "hierarchy of transport" seriously with pedestrians at the top and private cars at the bottom, you'd start designing with the presumption that the whole area would be pedestrians only. Then add some cycle lanes down the middle. Decide whether we need buses or does Princes/Queen street provide as much as needed. Only then do you work out what the role of private cars should be to fit in after all the other priorities. Maybe nothing, or maybe fit in a single one-way loop in either direction from Hanover street. Parking? Only if there is sensibly room after everything else. My own personal feeling is that the street is wide enough to allow a bit of non-through automotive access.

    The point is starting with car access and designing everything around that is back to front.

    Pointless though as I didn't make it along to the consultation. Hopefully something liveable will come out of it.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. fimm
    Member

    https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/reconstruction-of-st-marys-place-in-utrecht/

    Scroll down to the black and white photo from the 1970s and the colour photo from today...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It's now no longer possible for bicycles to turn right out of the west end of George Street. I guess this means I will officially abandon George Street heading west in the morning, I'm not wasting my life at 2 different sets of lights just to get around the Square to the cut-through down the side of Register House.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. deckard112
    Member

    @kaputnik - I become a pedestrian for a few seconds at the end of George St at the crossing before jumping back on and taking the southern route round the square to Register House. That was what I used to before the cycle lanes and resorted to it last night. Very effective.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. Stickman
    Member

    Looks like the results of this are about to be published:

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/continental-makeover-planned-for-edinburgh-s-george-street-1-4023162

    Posted 8 years ago #

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