CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

CityCyclingAberdeen (inc AWPR)

(16 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from chdot

  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I was getting back to my roots earlier this week, which gave me the opportunity to revel in the cycling culture of the Silver City.

    At home from work time, which is 17h01 for oilies, the streets were thronged with squads of fully cycle-kitted commuters on lovely bikes. So much so normal, but certainly in the leafy west end there was a crucial difference to what you would see in Edinburgh. I was gobstruck to see adult after adult confidently pedaling along the pavements. Helmets, lycra, nice MTB all-weather gear, carbon road bikes, you name it, all streaming home along the footpath.

    This seemed to be a response to two environmental cues;

    1) The roads were fair stappit wi muckle 4x4s
    2) There didn't appear to be any actual pedestrians

    I was forced to ask myself what I'd do if I lived there. Some of the advisory cycle lanes were death-traps, placed where the drivers of speeding cars had no option but to enter them (though they clearly had the option to slow down or take the bus).

    Having got back to Edinburgh it feels like Christiana by comparison. It put me in mind of speciation, the process where a population of one organism splits into two new ones if a barrier arises that prevents migration and interbreeding. It feels like Edinburgh and Aberdeen are going in very, very different directions. I take my polystyrene bicycle hat off to those grizzled campaigners who have kept the roads of Edinburgh cyclable. Anyone who thinks they haven't achieved much should trundle north to see where we might now be but for their efforts.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    Interesting insights!

    How do you think the 'bypass' will change things?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @chdot

    It looked to me like the cycle commuters were taking refuge from the radial 4x4 drivers headed from the oil offices out to the Deeside and Donside dormitory belts. I wouldn't expect the bypass to change that situation much.

    Maybe a drop in oil price will cause the burgers of Aberdeen to drive slightly slimmer cars? Some of the automobiles were the size of small houses, and the driving was assertive to say the least.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. dougal
    Member

    Cycled through Aberdeen (from station to Donbank Terrace) last weekend for a friend's birthday. I was following Google Maps through a city I don't know in a hurry. It was pretty grim in all directions but reasonably quiet. I can imagine the roads I followed at rush hour would be Totally Grim at weekday (c)rush hour.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. SRD
    Moderator

    "Anyone who thinks they haven't achieved much should trundle north to see where we might now be but for their efforts."

    I was amused to read this on the same day as some folks on twitter (who also come here) were proposing that Edinburgh needed a more effective cycling campaign, because the rate of change in Edinburgh was 'glacial'.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. Baldcyclist
    Member

    " because the rate of change in Edinburgh was 'glacial'."

    ...but still 15 years ahead of anywhere else in the country (except maybe Livingston which is a fluke which happened because the original principal planner wanted a pedestrian friendly place).

    I happened to sped a few days in Arbroath a few weeks ago (didn't get as far north as Aberdeen) and I was surprised at the number of bare headed, everyday clothes waring folks I saw riding about the town. Was quite easy at more or less any time of the day in most parts of the town to spot 2 or 3 cyclists in a 5 minute timeframe.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "

    AWPR
    The Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route, which should have been built years ago, continues to be delayed by objectors. It is not acceptable than such minorities should hold Aberdeen to ransom. They had their chance to object and lost. Further objections should not be allowed.

    "

    http://www.abd.org.uk/local/scotland.htm

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. Frenchy
    Member

    A weekend of Community Events is planned prior to the opening of the AWPR.

    People will be allowed one opportunity to walk and cycle on sections of the new road. But you can't take your own bike, instead "we are planning to have a selection of bikes for use in a “come and try” arena."

    I also enjoyed this little bit of comedy:

    "Q. What benefits will the AWPR bring for cyclists and pedestrians?

    A. The AWPR/B-T will be a Special Road, and, similar to a motorway, cyclists will be prohibited from using it for their own safety. However, the benefits to cyclists and pedestrians of the project are to be found in the local road networks which will be relieved of strategic traffic, with all the environmental and safety benefits this will bring."

    https://awprgonortheast.co.uk/community/community-events/#1528450362432-d436eafb-fdc3

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    “local road networks which will be relieved of strategic traffic”

    Ha ha ha ha.

    Like Musselburgh?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. Frenchy
    Member

    To be fair, I don't think even Transport Scotland expect the AWPR to relieve congestion in Musselburgh.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. Snowy
    Member

    Is there some sort of official traffic modelling software (or other form of algorithm) which road planners use in order to produce these outlandish claims?
    If there isn't, then they are basically making it up as they go along and shouldn't be allowed to reference these claims in planning applications etc.
    If there is, then it's basically not fit for purpose and needs to be urgently improved.
    I wonder if anyone ever says, 'Let's see if our predictions from 5 or 10 years ago were correct, and if not then let's see why not, and improve the model'.
    Answers on a postcard.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. Frenchy
    Member

    There certainly is software, so we're somewhere in the "not fit for purpose" camp. I think the software is probably perfectly fine, and it's the assumptions that are fed into it which are suspect. Assumptions like "The same number of people will drive between place A and place B, even if we widen the road". Modal shift just isn't something they account for.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    The only motorway new build I have ever experienced that has remained relatively light in traffic is the Birmingham Toll Rosd. Nearly seven quid now but worth it for the break and the Nice felafels at Norton Cannes services.

    Our route south goes m8, busy, A725, filling up nicely despite massive underpass at the M74, M74 constant until Tebay services, Nice chips, argument about whether they need salt, M6 completely rammed and at a standstill from north of Preston until the Toll road. Toll road quiet (only once in fifteen plus years ever has it been snarled (you do not get your money back) M1 busy but now apparently a smart motorway. (This means you go at a constant 40mph)

    So unless you are willing to pay for the privilege your road will almost Always have too many drivers. This will be the case on the AWPR. As it is on all the roads up there. Often also much earlier in the morning than the Edinburgh traffic and I think heavier. I went for a run about 7 a.m. along segregated and largely unused cycle lane /pavement north and west from the Village Hotel, totally rammed road with people arriving earlier and earlier to join the queue. This is some of the very traffic the AWPR is supposed to relieve, they were building it at the time.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. neddie
    Member

    Yep, variable tolls on all trunk roads & motorways For The Win

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. gembo
    Member

    Lorries about 12 quid on Birmingham toll, u rarely see a lorry on it

    The sign for Lichfield Canal Aqueduct is also not anywhere near said canal

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin


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